Pull test on Raven reserve

[zcohen13 0]

I've been trying to get ahold of Precision for the past 2 days but haven't been able to. I have a 1996 Raven Reserve that my riggers will not pack due to the fact that it is 20 years old. Does Precision do pull tests on reserves and if so, how much does it cost and take to get back? I've been trying to reach them on their number on their website, but nobody picks up.

[gowlerk 2,241]

If your rigger does not have a better reason than just the age I would look for another rigger. If your rigger is not equipped to do a pull test I would look for another rigger.

You are not the first person here who has had trouble contacting Precision.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[likestojump 3]

gowlerk

If your rigger does not have a better reason than just the age I would look for another rigger. If your rigger is not equipped to do a pull test I would look for another rigger.

You are not the first person here who has had trouble contacting Precision.

+ 1000

[irishrigger 32]

+1

[diablopilot 2]

This.

Quote

If your rigger does not have a better reason than just the age I would look for another rigger. If your rigger is not equipped to do a pull test I would look for another rigger.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BigMark 1]

I had no problem contacting them recently, they charge $65 to recertify reserves this includes shipping back to you. Don't send a real old one as they will not recertify no matter what. (I forget what the cut off date is)

[riggerrob 643]

Moderators: please move this thread to "Gear and Rigging."

How big is your Raven?
How many times has it been deployed?
How many times has it been repacked?
Is there any visible damage, fading, fraying, etc.?
Is it a Raven Dash-M?

That "20 year rule" should become a sliding scale.
20 years is an honest measure of harness/container life, however 20 years is a less accurate way to measure the life of a reserve canopy.

First, reserve canopies should experience less wear because they hide inside containers for 99 percent of their life span. IOW containers should absorb the abuse while protecting canopies.
Like most manufacturers, Precision has not published life-limits on their canopies. Nor does Precision insist on pull-tests (by field riggers). So your local riggers are "inventing" life limits tougher than factory standards.

If you want to compare life-limits written by other manufacturers, let's compare Performance Designs with Strong Enterprises.
PD set limits of 25 deployments or 40 repacked (roughly 20 years service life) then the PD reserve is supposed to return to the PD factory for visual inspection, pull tests and porosity tests.
Strong has similar standards for their tandem reserves: maximum 20 deployments, factory inspections after 8 years, 13 years, 18 years and retirement after 23 years. Strong factory inspections are similar to PD's.

PD pull tests are only part of the inspection. PD recently eliminated pull tests from their field inspections because they were not seeing significant deterioration of strength, but they were seeing canopies accidentally damaged by sloppy field riggers. PD reports that most older reserves pass factory inspections and are returned to service.

Testing porosity is more important, but few field riggers own porosity-testing machines.

Another reason for setting age limits is to retire older generations of obsolete gear. For example, National set age limits to retire Phantom round reserves that were at risk for acid mesh.
Strong tells tandem masters to retire tandem gear more than 18-23 years old because first generation tandems were ... crude ...

[diablopilot 2]

BigMark

I had no problem contacting them recently, they charge $65 to recertify reserves this includes shipping back to you. Don't send a real old one as they will not recertify no matter what. (I forget what the cut off date is)

If the item was not manufactured with a life limit at time of manufacture, then none exists, nor can one retroactively be put in place. It is up to the rigger maintaining and packing the canopy/system to determine airworthyness. Any rigger can also refuse based their own comfort level.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mark 107]

diablopilot

If the item was not manufactured with a life limit at time of manufacture, then none exists, nor can one retroactively be put in place. It is up to the rigger maintaining and packing the canopy/system to determine airworthiness. Any rigger can also refuse based their own comfort level.

This is exactly Precision's position. Their comfort level is 20 years. Your rigger's comfort level may be different, and they are okay with that.

Mark

[JohnMitchell 16]

diablopilot

If the item was not manufactured with a life limit at time of manufacture, then none exists, nor can one retroactively be put in place.

Really? Then my old Cypres should still be good, because I don't remember the 12 year life being advertised when I bought it.

[Quagmirian 40]

That's different though. An AAD is a sensitive electrical device and giving them a life makes sense. Parachutes on the other hand are quite tough and so long as they are stored and maintained well, they will last essentially indefinitely. I don't think this is even a question of obsolete gear either. Ravens are fine and we use them as reserves all the time over here.

It just seems unnecessary to chuck kit that's perfectly serviceable and might be keeping someone in the sport.

[skydiverek 63]

JohnMitchell

***
If the item was not manufactured with a life limit at time of manufacture, then none exists, nor can one retroactively be put in place.

Really? Then my old Cypres should still be good, because I don't remember the 12 year life being advertised when I bought it.

He was talking about TSO'd items only. AADs are not TSO'd.

[gowlerk 2,241]

JohnMitchell

***
If the item was not manufactured with a life limit at time of manufacture, then none exists, nor can one retroactively be put in place.

Really? Then my old Cypres should still be good, because I don't remember the 12 year life being advertised when I bought it.

It doesn't matter what they advertised.....the limit was in the manual. Darn fool consumers need to get edumacated.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wasatchrider 0]

JohnMitchell

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If the item was not manufactured with a life limit at time of manufacture, then none exists, nor can one retroactively be put in place.

Really? Then my old Cypres should still be good, because I don't remember the 12 year life being advertised when I bought it.
Yes it will still work. If you don't want it send it to me I'll use it I always wanted one of those things. I'll pay shipping I'm serious

BASE 1519

[pchapman 279]

Quote

Really? Then my old Cypres should still be good, because I don't remember the 12 year life being advertised when I bought it.

I'd put the reply this way:

AAD's are specially mentioned in the FAR's with their own rules, and are not subject to the same rules as other skydiving equipment that is TSO'd.

[diablopilot 2]

JohnMitchell

***
If the item was not manufactured with a life limit at time of manufacture, then none exists, nor can one retroactively be put in place.

Really? Then my old Cypres should still be good, because I don't remember the 12 year life being advertised when I bought it.


Good catch, I'll clarify.

AADs are not. TSOd item, instead the approval for their use includes a phrase similar to "must be maintained as per manufacturer's instructions"

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Thanks for all the answers, everyone. I guess there is a difference.

[piisfish 140]

wasatchrider

******
If the item was not manufactured with a life limit at time of manufacture, then none exists, nor can one retroactively be put in place.

Really? Then my old Cypres should still be good, because I don't remember the 12 year life being advertised when I bought it.
Yes it will still work. If you don't want it send it to me I'll use it I always wanted one of those things. I'll pay shipping I'm seriousIf you want I have 10's of them

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM