Rich Winstock Swoop Incident Cover-Up

[dthames 0]

BillyVance

Rich Winstock swooping spectators as the director or chair of S&TA, is like the president of MADD getting arrested for DUI.

Get him the fuck off the USPA board, period!

I noticed in June Parachutist, in the column Gearing Up, that Ed Scott asks that everyone jump according to regulations. One point specifically, was like don't jump in clouds and post video on it. Just don't jump in clouds.

Not many days after reading that I exited in a large wingsuit on a solo jump. I spotted a cloud a mile or more away and thought....should I try for it or not.....which board member should I follow?.....lead by example type stuff, right?

My junior high school football coach had a silly saying. "Actions speak louder than words....and you are making so much noise, I can't hear a thing you are saying."

That was his way of saying, "Shut your mouth and show me what you are made of". I don't know Mr Winstock. But in general, a person's true self shows through in their actions.

I am still looking at those clouds. I won't deny it.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[1888 0]

I seriously doubt criminal charges would ever be filed in a case like this even if the victim filed a criminal report. Even if they did prosecute, what would the charge be? Stupid or not, this was an accident so unless someone dies or sustains debilitating injuries there wouldn't be much interest on the part of the prosecutors.


Reckless conduct comes to mind.

[stayhigh 2]

You know what would be the worst punishment for this guy??

Make him do less than 90 degree turn for rest of the lifetime.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[SkyHookV3 0]

Whats the cover up? Everything has been been put out on the table for all to see. What other information are you looking for???

[yoink 321]

Less of a cover-up, more of a 1 rule set for the old boys, another set of rules for everyone else.

[dwhenline 0]

This guy hasn't stepped down yet?
what the heck is he waiting for?

[normiss 798]

Word on the street is that he tried.
His resignation was declined.

[DSE 5]

Again I ask for those that comment from the peanut gallery;

Have you directly asked the president of USPA about this incident?

Have you spoken directly with anyone who was part of the multiple investigations?

Have you asked your RD about the incident?

Have you spoken with the people involved?

It's reminiscent of

This case

or this one...

or this one

the point being, if you're going to have a trial by internet, at least familiarize yourself with the facts before serving on a jury voting in favor of conviction. Of course, there are some who benefit greatly from fanning flames...and the internet is a great place to recruit anonymous (and not-so-anonymous) pawns.

[normiss 798]

Maybe I have better peanuts than your gallery?

How do you know who has talked with whom?

You supporting the Good Ole Boy process this time around Spot?

[DSE 5]

My response wasn't directed at you, you were merely the last post.

I don't support the GOB, no. What I do support is making phone calls to learn answers for myself. I received an anonymous email which was vitriolic and dishonest about a couple of topics of which I had direct knowledge.

Then I learned that the email was sent by a board member, and it didn't take long to connect a few dots. Contrary to popular belief, members of the board are not all buddy-buddy.

So, I made some phone calls and found myself reasonably satisfied with the process as explained to me.

When the USPA does nothing about an instructor that has negligently contributed to a fatality, an organizer who Photoshops a record, an organizer who has inspired two fatalities at their events even after warned of specific problems, demo jumpers dropping flag weights, battery packs, and GoPro's through roofs, windshields, and canvas awnings, demo jumpers hitting (and injuring) spectators, or when military AADs were stolen/sold into the sport realm and someone injured, I realized that the USPA really doesn't care much about what we do, but I do know that it's not appropriate to single out this particular board member primarily because an anonymous board member says we should.

Did Winstock make a bad mistake? Obviously. Is it the mistake illustrated here on DZ.com? Based on several accounts from investigators and people that were actually there... Likely not. I'm satisfied with what I've been told. More than that, I'm not going to second-guess what three different investigations turned up.

I do think it's a shame that the situation isn't being made more public but then again, USPA has never before let the world know about their Article 1-6 investigations and if every other tom/dick/harry is entitled to private proceedings, so should Winstock (as have other BOD members and skydivers been protected by the same policy in past investigations).

Beyond that, upcoming elections will determine the final disposition of the situation.

[normiss 798]

Thanks for a thorough explanation.

[rwieder 0]

Thanks for being forth right DSE. It's a lot more than I can say for a half of the muck rakers chiming in on the subject. Initially, I felt he should have been suspended, or stepped down. How ever, if he did in fact swoop the beer line or what ever, it does go on real regular like, only this time some one got hurt. In fact, I know of one gentleman who swooped the beer line constantly, w/ a 3.5 WL. But this cat is REALLY good.

[chuckakers 425]

normiss

Word on the street is that he tried.
His resignation was declined.

How is a resignation "declined"?


Dude: "Hey HQ, I'm resigning."

HQ: "Dude, your resignation is declined."

Dude: "Hey HQ, I quit."

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[chuckakers 425]

rwieder

Thanks for being forth right DSE. It's a lot more than I can say for a half of the muck rakers chiming in on the subject. Initially, I felt he should have been suspended, or stepped down. How ever, if he did in fact swoop the beer line or what ever, it does go on real regular like, only this time some one got hurt. In fact, I know of one gentleman who swooped the beer line constantly, w/ a 3.5 WL. But this cat is REALLY good.

From what I understand, the swoop was well past the "beer line" - if there even was one.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[JamMasterJay 0]

billvon

About six years ago, after Bob Holler's death, we started a drive to get a BSR passed to require standard patterns in main landing areas. We got petitions, sent emails, and eventually gathered about 20 people and flew out to a USPA meeting to demand a change to the BSR's.

This is why we need more libertarians. I mean, you do understand that what you're asking for and expecting is not logical...don't you? The best change is implimented at LOCAL level. Why petition folks on the other side of the country for change? If you're unhappy with the safety at your own dropzone, make it safer! The USPA doesn't need to set landing patterns, you can make that change locally and enforce it.

freaking democtrats!

Truth is the distilled meaning of facts, for any truth refuted by a fact becomes a fallacy.

[SkyHookV3 0]

Democrats will always try to impose over control of the population.

[bigbearfng 18]

rwieder

Thanks for being forth right DSE. It's a lot more than I can say for a half of the muck rakers chiming in on the subject. Initially, I felt he should have been suspended, or stepped down. How ever, if he did in fact swoop the beer line or what ever, it does go on real regular like, only this time some one got hurt. In fact, I know of one gentleman who swooped the beer line constantly, w/ a 3.5 WL. But this cat is REALLY good.

Sorry but some of my friends that are now dead were REALLY good too.....

[rwieder 0]

Quote

Sorry but some of my friends that are now dead were REALLY good too.....

Sorry about your friends that were really good. How ever, this friend of mine is alive and well as you and I some 15 years later. Well, I guess that make him REALLY GOOD!

[rwieder 0]

Chuck, I'm referring to SDSL the area that used to be roped off (Might still be?) towards the landing area, where all of the "Lookie Lous" used to stand and watch their friends, relatives, or what ever land when they came in for landing. You're there all of the time, you know the area I speak of.

[chuckakers 425]

rwieder

Chuck, I'm referring to SDSL the area that used to be roped off (Might still be?) towards the landing area, where all of the "Lookie Lous" used to stand and watch their friends, relatives, or what ever land when they came in for landing. You're there all of the time, you know the area I speak of.

Yes, that area now has a nice spectator fence and an easily visible line of deadened grass about 20 feet further into the landing area as the beer line. That beer line extends the entire length of the fence and around the corners of the hangar, and extends vertically to a height equal to the roof of the hangar (25 feet or so) creating a no-fly zone. This keeps jumpers from passing over the spectator area at a low altitude and landing "barely legal" and keeps jumpers from cutting across the corners as well.

It's enforced too. Skydive Spaceland is super busy these days with 2 turbines running most weekends, so we have a DZ Safety Officer monitoring operations.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Cutaway68 4]

rwieder

Thanks for being forth right DSE. It's a lot more than I can say for a half of the muck rakers chiming in on the subject. Initially, I felt he should have been suspended, or stepped down. How ever, if he did in fact swoop the beer line or what ever, it does go on real regular like, only this time some one got hurt. In fact, I know of one gentleman who swooped the beer line constantly, w/ a 3.5 WL. But this cat is REALLY good.

I beg to differ on DSE being all that forth right.

DSE

Did Winstock make a bad mistake? Obviously. Is it the mistake illustrated here on DZ.com? Based on several accounts from investigators and people that were actually there... Likely not. I'm satisfied with what I've been told. More than that, I'm not going to second-guess what three different investigations turned up.

I contacted my Regional Director regarding this whole thing. What I was told, was that almost immediately there was a "gag order" (my words because I don't remember the exact wording they used) instated that kept any of the USPA directors and staff with from talking about any details.

It would seem that DSE is privy to information that the rest of us are not, and that he is unwilling to share this information in these forums.

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

[rwieder 0]

Quote

It would seem that DSE is privy to information that the rest of us are not, and that he is unwilling to share this information in these forums.

Of course he has his sources. DSE, I invite you here to back this up. It's not an international secret ya know. As "Alf" used to say on that old show "Ya Crawl Under People's Houses, Ya Hear Things!" You sound upset b/c this may simply be the case. And could be that he can't divulge that info publicly. I wouldn't were it me.

[Cutaway68 4]

rwieder

Quote

It would seem that DSE is privy to information that the rest of us are not, and that he is unwilling to share this information in these forums.

Of course he has his sources. DSE, I invite you here to back this up. It's not an international secret ya know. As "Alf" used to say on that old show "Ya Crawl Under People's Houses, Ya Hear Things!" You sound upset b/c this may simply be the case. And could be that he can't divulge that info publicly. I wouldn't were it me.

Well, I guess since you put it that way. If I were crawling under peoples houses and spying on them, I wouldn't come forth publicly either. Reminds me of the NSA for some reason.

I was informed that the thread in the incidents forum contains some pretty accurate info though.

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

[DSE 5]

If making a few phone calls is "spying" on someone, I'm guilty.
Forgive me for not simply believing what I read on the internet or what inaccurate statements someone without the balls to sign their name to, sends me.

Having worked with/around media most of my life, I'm not quite that color of sheeple.

There was once a dude that "allegedly" stole a number of military-modified AADs and sold them into the skydiving world. A person was hurt (nearly killed, according to multiple news reports).
When the story went public here, I called the arresting officer and the prosecuting attorney that issued the warrant. I also then called one of the victims. I wanted to know directly before commenting and later writing a story on the situation.
I've been a victim of hearsay. I'd just as soon not participate in it, and accessing facts is quite easy these days.

For example, you could just read this or you could sign up for this (it was free two years ago), or, you could simply accept everything written about it here on DZ.com (a good portion of which wasn't accurate).
If one cares enough to comment on the situation, doesn't one want to be informed of the situation?

[Cutaway68 4]

DSE

If making a few phone calls is "spying" on someone, I'm guilty.
Forgive me for not simply believing what I read on the internet or what inaccurate statements someone without the balls to sign their name to, sends me.

I don't either. I took the time to call my Regional Director to find out more from our governing body, only to find out that it won't matter who I ask, they will not tell.

Quote

Having worked with/around media most of my life, I'm not quite that color of sheeple

.

Do I seem like I fall into the "sheeple" category, when I went further than most to contact my RD and talk to them on the phone?

Quote

There was once a dude that "allegedly" stole a number of military-modified AADs and sold them into the skydiving world. A person was hurt (nearly killed, according to multiple news reports).
When the story went public here, I called the arresting officer and the prosecuting attorney that issued the warrant. I also then called one of the victims. I wanted to know directly before commenting and later writing a story on the situation.
I've been a victim of hearsay. I'd just as soon not participate in it, and accessing facts is quite easy these days.

For example, you could just read this or you could sign up for this (it was free two years ago), or, you could simply accept everything written about it here on DZ.com (a good portion of which wasn't accurate).
If one cares enough to comment on the situation, doesn't one want to be informed of the situation?

You may as well have started this part with "There once was a man from Nantucket..." because the rest of this reply has NOTHING to do with this incident. Are you trying to distract me thinking I will react like a dog with a squirrel?

For what it's worth, part of the reason I am hounding you on this, is because I have found you to be someone worth listening to. Your posts in other threads regarding various topics from cameras to wingsuits are very concise and informative.

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.