Same Price Less Altitude

[damir 1]

I have had the opportunity to jump at dropzones around the USA, however, I am very disappointed. I don’t mind paying for my price ticket as that is the price of the sport but what’s going on with the altitude? Many of the dropzones advertise $25 for 13,500, or $25 for 12,500, or even $20 to $9,500 but you hardly ever get to that altitude anymore. If I pay $25 for 13,500 I expect 13,500 unless there is an unforeseen emergency. At one point I used to just avoid these dropzones but unfortunately its becoming common practice now days. I guess I want the good old days when I first started to jump where I paid $25 for 13,500 and that is what I got. What ever happened to honoring what you advertise? Sorry to bitch but common DZOs, whats going on?

[JWest 0]

I haven't been around long but all 5 west coast DZs I jump at have always gone up to the advertised altitude. Obviously if you get out later in the order you will be a few hundred feet lower than the first guy.

[Dr.SkyFall 28]

JWest

I haven't been around long but all 5 west coast DZs I jump at have always gone up to the advertised altitude. Obviously if you get out later in the order you will be a few hundred feet lower than the first guy.

Could you explain to someone very new to the sport why it is obvious that for the later jumpers you will be a bit lower? I would have guessed less weight in the plane would cause the plane to gain some altitude as the jumpers exited. Is this just from the prop being cut and they keep the plane at the same airspeed necessitating a drop in alt? When jumping out of twins do they still cut the props?

[kallend 2,027]

I have not noticed a systematic reduction in exit altitude. Sometimes you get higher, sometimes lower, but on average it seems to me that, in the absence of a reason like cloud ceiling or ATC restrictions, it all balances out.

(This would apply to DZs where I jump most often, in Illinois, Florida and southern California.)

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NWFlyer 2]

Meh. I've found most DZs are consistently in the ballpark when conditions permit full altitude. If "full" is defined as 13K, sometimes they're at 12.5, sometimes they're at 13.5, sometimes you get a bonus and your logger reads 14.5 and sometimes they're busting to get another tandem load up before sunset and you only get 11.5K. Unless you're consistently getting significantly less than advertised (with no mitigating factors like weather or air traffic), it's all good. I'm guessing you don't run into manifest and offer to pay for that extra 1 or 2 K you got that one time when someone asked nicely because it was a milestone jump, did ya?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Blis 1]

In most cases, with bigger planes the jump run will be descending to reduce the risk of tail strike and they also turn down the power to make climbing out easier.

[akarunway 1]

Smoking hot tits gets you to 15K. No extra charge.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[fallfast69 3]

This...it's still all about boobies...silly!

[riggerrob 643]

Most airplanes lose a bit of altitude during jump run.
First the pilot levels off and reduces power to cruise setting.
Then the door opens producing more drag.
The pilot compensates by lowering the nose a bit.
Jumpers yell "CUT" so the pilot reduces power more.
The pilot lowers the nose to maintain airspeed and control.
Four floaters take their sweet time climbing into position, creating more drag.
The pilot lowers the nose to maintain airspeed.
All those floaters disrupt the airflow over the tail control surfaces and the airplane starts bucking.
The pilot lowers the nose to maintain airspeed.
The rest of the formation takes their sweet time shuffling towards the door, moving the center of gravity aft of published limits.
The pilot lowers the nose to maintain airspeed.
The formation finally exits causing the airplane to pitch nose down.
The pilot breaths a sigh of relief and pulls the nose partway up as he waits for the airspeed to slowly rebuild to minimum control speed.
Meanwhile, the second batch of floaters starts climbing out .... and the process repeats.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

akarunway

Smoking hot tits gets you to 15K. No extra charge.

I threaten to show the pilot my moobies if he doesn't take us up another 1000 feet!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[pchapman 279]

riggerrob

Most airplanes lose a bit of altitude during jump run.
First the pilot levels off and reduces power to cruise setting.

.. etc etc....

Indeed.
Which is why the pilot should have a couple extra hundred feet in the bank, so that jumpers can actually get to jump at the altitude they paid for on average. Although there may be some compromise for aircraft performance, it shouldn't be the pilot just hitting 12500' or whatever for a split second before the door opens, or only the first one out of the plane getting what he paid for.

(Obviously if the jumpers don't like it the DZO can change the quoted altitude down a bit or adjust up the price and give full altitude. But don't blatantly lie to all the sport jumpers. If DZOs do that to tandems, well that's another story...)

[Halfpastniner 0]

I'm wired the other way. Our local DZ's normal exit alti is 12.5K. Every foot over that is just more time of my life i've burned sitting backwards in an airplane.

BASE 1384

[grimmie 186]

pchapman

***Most airplanes lose a bit of altitude during jump run.
First the pilot levels off and reduces power to cruise setting.

.. etc etc....

Indeed.
Which is why the pilot should have a couple extra hundred feet in the bank, so that jumpers can actually get to jump at the altitude they paid for on average. Although there may be some compromise for aircraft performance, it shouldn't be the pilot just hitting 12500' or whatever for a split second before the door opens, or only the first one out of the plane getting what he paid for.

(Obviously if the jumpers don't like it the DZO can change the quoted altitude down a bit or adjust up the price and give full altitude. But don't blatantly lie to all the sport jumpers. If DZOs do that to tandems, well that's another story...)

Some DZs are altitude restricted by ATC, thus not able to fly a foot over 13K maybe.

If skydivers actually did the climb out like the dirt dive, the jump plane wouldn't have to lose altitude, however, everyone takes an eternity to launch that first big way out the door, thus screwing the next groups for a few hundred feet of fun.

AND, with the cost of operations these days, a jump ticket should actually be about $40.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Halfpastniner

I'm wired the other way. Our local DZ's normal exit alti is 12.5K. Every foot over that is just more time of my life i've burned sitting backwards in an airplane.

Sounds like you should do hop & pops all day.

Do you hate free beer too?

[lomcovak 0]

I was visiting a DZ this summer that charges $40 CAD to 13,000 and was asked by the DZO if I was packed and would like the last slot on the load. I got in the plane last - the rest were all tandems. After takeoff I got a tap on the shoulder by a TM and was told "we're only going to 8,500." Apparently the policy is that there has to be FOUR or more fun jumpers on board to go to full altitude otherwise it's always 8,500. I was told "the tandems can't tell the difference."

I asked about when they compare their freefall time on the video to those they see on youtube and wonder why they only got 20 seconds instead of 45 and was told "oh we edit it and include so-mo to make it seem longer."

Some people might feel that this is shortchanging tandem customers (who, let's face it pay a lot) and fun jumpers alike. After that first jump I made sure I was only on loads with more than 4 fun jumpers!

"Now, why do witches burn?"
"...because they're made of... wood?"
"Good. So how do you tell whether she is made of wood?"
"Build a bridge out of her."

[GoHuskers 0]

grimmie

with the cost of operations these days, a jump ticket should actually be about $40.

Which is why fun jumpers should always be welcoming to tandems and give footage to the DZ to help with marketing.

[lomcovak 0]

In my opinion a plane with four tandems plus video that's taking in around $1400 for the load should be sent the extra few minutes to altitude to give them all proper value for money.

"Now, why do witches burn?"
"...because they're made of... wood?"
"Good. So how do you tell whether she is made of wood?"
"Build a bridge out of her."

[dqpacker 7]

They have these things called wind tunnels, you sound like a perfect fit.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

Are you considering what the MSL altitude is? I jump from coast to coast and in the middle. I find that sea level dropzones will often hit 13.5 every time but in Utah and Colorado it's a good days to get 12.5 or 12, but in reality that altitude is 18k and aircraft performance and airspace issues are different up there.

You will find yourself paying more in Colorado to get 12.5 than you will in Florida for 13.5, but that's simply because of the MSL. Even inland CA dropzones tend to be a couple of grand above sea level.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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[kallend 2,027]

WickedWingsuits

Are you considering what the MSL altitude is? I jump from coast to coast and in the middle. I find that sea level dropzones will often hit 13.5 every time but in Utah and Colorado it's a good days to get 12.5 or 12, but in reality that altitude is 18k and aircraft performance and airspace issues are different up there.

You will find yourself paying more in Colorado to get 12.5 than you will in Florida for 13.5, but that's simply because of the MSL. Even inland CA dropzones tend to be a couple of grand above sea level.

And then there's the FAA regulations on supplemental oxygen, which depend on MSL, not AGL, altitude.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

Yes, a go around up there makes for some light headed skydivers!

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

[chuckakers 425]

Halfpastniner

I'm wired the other way. Our local DZ's normal exit alti is 12.5K. Every foot over that is just more time of my life i've burned sitting backwards in an airplane.

I must have read that wrong. I could have sworn you just said...no wait. That couldn't be. That's impossible.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Bluhdow 31]

Just start pulling lower to get your money's worth.

Apex BASE
#1816

[fanya 3]

Bluhdow

Just start pulling lower to get your money's worth.

Best answer.

[diablopilot 2]

Have you considered that you set your altimeter based on the ground level you take off from, where as the pilot has to set his altimeter to the pressure altitude that ATC provides him and then is often restricted to the altitude they assign?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.