1:1 really that stupid for first gear?

[Kolizion 0]

My exit weight is pretty close to 200lb... currently flying a rental sabre2 190 with 34 jumps ((in a relatively short period of time))

looking through used gear and waiting for something to pop up. I'm seeing a lot more 170's and lower come up.

I'm not looking to cook through the downsizing chart, I'm looking for something to fly, survive, and enjoy.... then stay there.

would it be absolutely stupid to buy a new 170 rig that wouldn't be ready till mid season (july/aug) and continue renting a 190 flying the hell out of it...

or stay with a 190, and keep on a waiting for a nice 190 complete rig to pop up?

I know this is a n00b question... but i'm pulling my hair out wanting my own gear. I'm sure you all have been there.

[RMK 3]

Kolizion

I'm not looking to cook through the downsizing chart

No one reading this internet post can assess your skill level or financial circumstances. You will always want to have more skill than canopy; not the other way around.

I weigh 88kg (194lbs) and bought a Sabre2 190 on my 35th jump. I also started a canopy course on my 40th jump - worked in my circumstances; may not be suitable for all (I took guidance from my instructors on this). Years later, I still have the same canopy.

A 190/170 canopy is the most easily sellable canopy size; people are always waiting for them to come to market 2nd hand.

Get what you need to fly safely now; not the cross-braced handkerchief that your future mad-skillz self will need.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Trafficdiver 8]

Buying a rig because there are lots of them on the market is stupid.

It's closer to a 1.2 anyway. Have patients a nice 190 will show up soon. Even a nice 210 will be fine.

Bet you're going to go answer shopping anyway.

[dthames 0]

I wanted a 190, which would put me at about 1.05. I wanted my own gear very badly. I found a used rig with a 210 when I had about 20 jumps. It was a good deal so I bought it and started jumping it right away. With the 210 I am at 0.93. I thought about trading it for a smaller one but you know, it has never let me down and has pulled me from not good situations several times. That is the only parachute that I have had. It still works very well for me and is very, very forgiving.

I made a choice to fly lighter than most people. I wingsuit fly so I can put myself upwind on most jumps. If I did other type jumps that might put me downwind, my choice might be different. It is up to you but remember, it is up to you.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[Kolizion 0]

Thanks guys, I'm not answer shopping (in a way I am.. But I'm not hunting for a preselected answer.)

I'm comfortable on a 190... I was not on a 210, as strange as that might sound. I'm not against getting a 190 and staying there for a season or two.

I guess the better question might be why someone would want to downsize under a 1:1? Is it more of a swoopers / go fast thing? I would guess you could have some damn fun at 1:1 and be fine for years.

I'm just fighting an urge to buy new gear and get a used rig. I've stood up every landing except for 2 of my really early jumps. I'm not saying I'm cocky, because that can change at any second. However I'm new, and just looking to see what everyone with far more experience has to say.

[rohicks 2]

That seems pretty aggressive. At least to the route I took. My exit weight is 200 plus or minus a few pounds pending the week.

Jumps 1-11 I was on a 260

Jumps 12-50 on a 240

Jumps 51-70 on a 220

Jumps 71-present I am now jumping my own rig built for a 190/190 but using a 210/190 in it. Which puts me at .93 wing loading.

Also just because you can stand up a landing doesn't mean you should be downsizing. Talk with your instructors and S&TA.

[PixieUK 0]

Kolizion

My exit weight is pretty close to 200lb... currently flying a rental sabre2 190 with 34 jumps ((in a relatively short period of time))

looking through used gear and waiting for something to pop up. I'm seeing a lot more 170's and lower come up.

I'm not looking to cook through the downsizing chart, I'm looking for something to fly, survive, and enjoy.... then stay there.

would it be absolutely stupid to buy a new 170 rig that wouldn't be ready till mid season (july/aug) and continue renting a 190 flying the hell out of it...

or stay with a 190, and keep on a waiting for a nice 190 complete rig to pop up?

I know this is a n00b question... but i'm pulling my hair out wanting my own gear. I'm sure you all have been there.

I would say wait and buy whatever you can comfortably jump now. To give you a little perspective, I am considerably lighter than you and have just downsized to a 170 from a 190 at 200+ jumps. My CI was happy for me to downsize at 100 jumps but I was getting into big way at that point, and having a low wingloading was allowing me to get back from deep spots (when I had to track away from the landing area) and was giving me plenty of time to descend without getting in the way of more experienced jumpers in the same group who wanted to land quickly.

If I can throw a Silhouette 190 around weighing around 145lbs, you should have no problem at all in exploring the performance envelope of a 190 and will probably have more success than I did at front riser turns (even with dive loops, my front riser stuff was more like pull-ups than getting the corner of the canopy to come down ).

Do a search on downsizing on these forums - it might help you to understand why many very experienced jumpers state that a 170 canopy is a high performance canopy, regardless of wing-loading, and it is another one of the reasons I was in no rush to go smaller.

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[Kolizion 0]

That's what I was thinking. I just needed to hear "you'll be happy for an extended period of time on a 190".... Not "you'll get bored in a season"

I'll still keep my eyes out for that.

[Joellercoaster 6]

There are plenty of reasons to downsize past 1:1.

None of them apply for quite a while.

The 170 is just plain too small to be a good for you at the moment (and I can hear all the guys - always guys - saying I don't know you and nobody who doesn't know you should recommend anything because there are special people. The thing is, there are limits to that, and a bad idea is sometimes just a bad idea).

A 190 will turn up, and you'll love it. You may even love a 210, if you find the right 210 - they are definitely not all the same.

Anyway, it sounds like you basically know all this, so that's cool. This answer is mostly for other people who might read the thread later.

Hang in there, winter is coming and second hand gear shopping is about to get easier!

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Personally I like to stay up longer, and I like having some extra range in the event that I put myself farther out than I planned on my wingsuit. I'm jumping a Safire 230 right now, and am neighborhood of 250 exit weight. I don't foresee a time when I might want to downsize again. Whenever the current Safire 230 is no longer fit to jump, I could easily see buying another Safire 230 and jumping that one until it's no longer flyable too.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[jeffrey27rj 0]

FlyingRhenquest

Personally I like to stay up longer

I've been saying that for years

*If you fail to plan, you plan to fail*
*It's not flair, it's flare*
*Please use "your" and "you're" responsibly*

[GoHuskers 0]

Kolizion

That's what I was thinking. I just needed to hear "you'll be happy for an extended period of time on a 190".... Not "you'll get bored in a season"

You may very well get bored on a 190 after a season. It really depends on what you enjoy in the sport. Nobody can tell you the answer. I've switched mains each season so far. Partially because I wanted something that flew or opened differently, partially because I compulsively window shop

I personally would suggest buying low bulk canopy like a pilot zpx or a pulse. They hold their value exceptionally well and allow you a greater container range for purchasing used gear.

[jumpwally 0]

We'd all be safer if we all stayed 1:1,,,,,

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[BigMikeH77 0]

Another thing you should (IMO) take into consideration... Where is your home DZ? Are you jumping near sea level, or are you jumping at higher altitudes? At my home DZ, I've seen the density altitude in the summer hit 8,700'... I'm sure it has been even higher.

There have been many hot and humid days when I'm OK with flying my 210 sky barge.

[billvon 2,990]

Most important thing you have said:

>I'm comfortable on a 190

That's an excellent reason to stick with a 190.

[JohnMitchell 16]

GoHuskers

You may very well get bored on a 190 after a season. It really depends on what you enjoy in the sport.

There's a lot you can do still with bigger canopies. You know what's really boring? Sitting on the ground with casts and crutches.

[JWest 0]

It is not really stupid but it isn't advisable.

[johnmatrix 21]

My first gear was a 190 loaded at 1.15. I'm still jumping it now after 600 jumps and have lost weight, now my WL has actually decreased to around 1.0 and I'm still happy with it.

I would only get the 170 rig if it can take a 190 as well. Problem is that if you get gear that you're not ready to jump... you don't know when you'll be ready to jump it.
What if life intervenes and you take a break? You break an ankle? (easy in this sport) ... You'll be stuck with a rig that you're not ready to jump and having to continue on rental gear...

I'd wait for a 190.
There is time enough to break an ankle later in life. Err on the side of bigger and slower.

[FreefallingCari 0]

Before you even think about downsizing, you should be able to land that canopy anywhere and everywhere. Need to bail in someone's back yard? No problem. Have you landed crosswind and downwind?

I was at a 0.85 WL for 188 jumps or so. Then went to a 1:1. Yes, I am conservative, but I also had a few experiences before 50 jumps that made be realize the importance of conservative flying

You will not regret being conservative.

Oh, and I was jumping 5-10 jumps a week and I downsized after 188 jumps. Experience takes time. I can look back at my 38 jump self and shake my head.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[hardhatpat 4]

My exit weight is about 230lbs, I have 62 jumps and the last 40 have been on a 189 safire 2, 190 saber 2, or 188 pilot.

I seem to be handling this loading alright and am really enjoying my canopy time.

[sammielu 3]

Less canopy means quicker response, quicker mistakes, quicker/faster close calls, and hitting hard objects (even unintentionally) with more speed. Faster does not equal safer.

Think about your priorities for saftey and the impact on your quality of life if you sprained an ankle, broke a leg or pelvis, or died from decisions you made putting a canopy on your back or flying it to the ground.

Then consider worst case to best case scenarios. Worst case is probably unconscious under your reserve with an AAD fire. There's $1k minimum you would probably want to spend on an AAD, and some thought regarding zero input landings under the reserve you choose.

I jump a 170 reserve at a 1:1 wingloading on my fattest days. The rig fits canopies from a lightning at 1.35 I jump now (for crw at 1100 jumps), to the 1:1 wingloading Safire I had in it from jump 150 (when I bought the rig). Think reserve size first, then add a main.

[JohnMitchell 16]

hardhatpat

My exit weight is about 230lbs, I have 62 jumps and the last 40 have been on a 189 safire 2, 190 saber 2, or 188 pilot.

I seem to be handling this loading alright and am really enjoying my canopy time.

I hope this continues for you. How are your landings?

[hardhatpat 4]

In a word: fast. Things seem to happen very quickly at this loading.

I stand almost all of them up, I've heel slid to my ass or tripped trying to run out a fast landing.

I'm flying this loading because its what the used gear that fit me at my dz was built for. I'm aware of the danger but its always the other guy that actually gets hurt, right?

[maggyrider 10]

hardhatpat

I stand almost all of them up, I've heel slid to my ass or tripped trying to run out a fast landing.

One of my teachers always told me, there are people landing their canopies and there are people stopping to fly. In which group are you? Do you think this is the way to go?

hardhatpat

In a word: fast. Things seem to happen very quickly at this loading.

Think about it that way - a smaller canopy requires more, a bigger canopy requires less skill. Something going wrong requires skill. Learning requires skill. A new situation requires skill.
Currently you are using 100% of your skill just to get to the ground somehow - in perfect conditions. If something goes wrong you don't have any skill left to influence the outcome. You are relying on luck and not on skill in those situations. You will not progress as fast as somebody on a canopy that fits their skill level because you cannot invest anything into learning - you don't have any skill left to improve because all your capacity is already used.

Nice words are not always true - and true words are not always nice.

[Scubadivemaster 3]

Here is one of the three pieces of advice that I give to every student when I sign off on their A-license:

Make every decision in this sport based on the primary goal of "I want to be able to continue to skydive for many years."