Rough Canopy Opening

[Rustbucket350 41]

Not really asking for advice on level 3 but this was kind of fun.  

Didn't think they taught backflying so early!

[Rustbucket350 41]

Did hit me when I was upside down.  I was like thrust the arch.  Trust the arch.   It will be fine.

[wmw999 2,452]

3 hours ago, Rustbucket350 said:

Did hit me when I was upside down.  I was like thrust the arch.  Trust the arch.   It will be fine.

Once you think about that badminton birdie, and how it always ends up heavy center first, and longer, lighter, feather ends last, trusting the arch makes perfect sense. Of course, achieving one under pressure takes practice, but it sounds like you had a successful jump. Not what you would define as perfect, but you know most of what you did that wasn’t optimal, have some idea of how to fix it (or at least talk to your instructor about), and you walked away smiling — knowing what you did under canopy.

Knowing what you did to get a good result is wonderful; that’s what you repeat and build on.

Wendy P. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

...but it sounds like you had a successful jump. Not what you would define as perfect, but you know most of what you did that wasn’t optimal, have some idea of how to fix it (or at least talk to your instructor about), and you walked away smiling — knowing what you did under canopy...

A long time ago, a 'crusty old guy' gave me a definition for 'successful jump' that I've repeated numerous times.

#1 - Land safely

#2 - Learn something

#3 - Have fun

 

That's it.
There will be other objectives, other goals.

Accomplishing those is great. 
But it's just a bonus.

[Rustbucket350 41]

Yeah!  I know there's a serious learning curve in this sport but it truly is awesome.  Even though there's things I need to work on, progression feels fantastic.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Rustbucket350

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Keep in mind that there will be times (and jumps) where that progress is hard to see.
There will be times when you feel like you are going backwards.

That is totally normal. 

[dudeman17 340]

19 hours ago, Rustbucket350 said:

this was kind of fun

 

A couple jumps ago line twists scared the pee out of you. Now, rolling over on your release dive is fun. See, it's happening already...

Ha!

[Rustbucket350 41]

15 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

 

A couple jumps ago line twists scared the pee out of you. Now, rolling over on your release dive is fun. See, it's happening already...

Ha!

Haha that's a good point.  Plus, I can feel myself getting more aware both in freefall and under canopy.  One thing I was worried about was getting unstable in freefall and when I did I swear I could see the word "arch" written on the sky.

[dudeman17 340]

[Rustbucket350 41]

I think I'm going to do some tunnel time to work on body position next week.  Get back up and ideally crush level 3.

[Rustbucket350 41]

Honestly what makes me afraid now is the hop n pop.  I know.  It should be easy  my instructors already reassured me that by the time I have to do it I'll be ready.   Hopefully that works out to be correct.  Probably still overthinking it.   Fly more.  Think less.  Exit time hop out and do it.

[Rustbucket350 41]

Luckily we do them from 5000 feet so I have a bit more room.

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

On 4/19/2022 at 2:46 AM, Rustbucket350 said:

Honestly what makes me afraid now is the hop n pop.  I know.  It should be easy  my instructors already reassured me that by the time I have to do it I'll be ready.   Hopefully that works out to be correct.  Probably still overthinking it.   Fly more.  Think less.  Exit time hop out and do it.

Yup. Overthinking it.

Funny thing - Old school static line jumpers started from 4500' or so.
First full altitude jump, the though going through my mind was 'Wow!! It's so high!!!"

These days, AFF students on their first H&P - 'Wow!!! It's so low!!'

 

[riggerrob 643]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Yup. Overthinking it.

Funny thing - Old school static line jumpers started from 4500' or so.
First full altitude jump, the though going through my mind was 'Wow!! It's so high!!!"

These days, AFF students on their first H&P - 'Wow!!! It's so low!!'

 

What?

I have dropped hundreds of static-line and IAD students from 2,800 or 3,000 feet because that was the norm (USPA and CSPA BSRs) back then (1982 to 2006).

Dumbing-down AFFers first hop-and-pop to 4500' is a dis-service. Maybe do their first hop-and-pop from 5,000' - to get them over their fears - but then step down hop-and-pops to 3,000 feet because the primary reason for hop-and-pops is to get them over the fear and hesitation of doing hop-and-pops if they are limited by low clouds or an engine quits.

I once had to spend half a day sewing back together a student container because a  recently graduated freefall student tumbled an exit from a King Air flying at 4,000 feet. He deployed his main while tumbling and partially tore the reserve container away from the main container. He tumbled the exit because he was flustered about having to exit so "LOW." They were limited by low clouds that day.

I have had to do similar repairs to Javelins, Sidewinders, Talons, Vectors, etc. after unstable openings. I later talked the Sidewinder manufacturer into adding triangular flaps to reduce the risk of main lines ripping off reserve containers. Then I sewed those little triangles onto our dozen student Sidewinders.

[Rustbucket350 41]

Hah it does seem low to us AFF students.  Did 10 minutes of tunnel today and I feel like the arch started to click.  90% was seriously me just being tense.  Nice to focus on stability, turning, forward and backward movement, and practice deploying while maintaining a stable position.  Hopefully it results in muscle memory.  Gonna get out to the dropzone Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

[Rustbucket350 41]

10 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Yup. Overthinking it.

Funny thing - Old school static line jumpers started from 4500' or so.
First full altitude jump, the though going through my mind was 'Wow!! It's so high!!!"

These days, AFF students on their first H&P - 'Wow!!! It's so low!!'

 

Yeah man.  Go up and do it.

[dudeman17 340]

On 4/19/2022 at 12:46 AM, Rustbucket350 said:

Honestly what makes me afraid now is the hop n pop.

 

Which is exactly why they have you do it. Back in the day when everyone learned by a static line program, we started out at lower altitudes and worked our way up as we progressed to longer freefall delays. Now with AFF, all your jumps are from top floor. There were incidents where people balked at emergency exits because 'it was too low'. So the hop n pop is designed to show you that you don't need 10k to safely exit the airplane.

Thinking is a good thing in your training and preparation. You just need to know where to focus it. You can practice for your hop n pop. When you graduate from AFF to your solos, commit some of your exits to doing a stable exit and quick practice touch. Then you'll be ready  for it. Think through the scenarios that may require an emergency exit and how you'll want to deal with that. Know the altitude differences between when you'd go for main or reserve, and why that is. Train yourself to have a good visual sense of altitude. Study the routes your pilots take on the way to altitude, and determine your alternate landing areas for anywhere you may happen to be. Be knowledgable and prepared for anything and everything, before it actually happens. As you study these things, consult with your instructors, S&TA's, and experienced people you respect and trust.

Safety's a skill. Survival's an art. Outwit the reaper.

[Rustbucket350 41]

That is a lot of information but I think it's good.  Seriously thank you.

[Rustbucket350 41]

29 minutes ago, Rustbucket350 said:

That is a lot of information but I think it's good.  Seriously thank you.

Gonna run over all this with my instructors.  It's quite a bit.   I think for now the key is to relax and have a solid arch right out the door.  Luckily I'm not afraid of the door. I actually like it.

[sfzombie13 324]

the main thing about a hop and pop, especially from 5k, is take the time you need to get stable before pulling.  i tumbled once, took a few seconds and got stable first, was open by 3k and that was a 4k exit.  it helps that my canopy is open in 200 ft, but that's why i jump a reserve.  well, that and it was cheap as hell.

[wmw999 2,452]

6 hours ago, Rustbucket350 said:

That is a lot of information but I think it's good.  Seriously thank you.

It is, and it is good in my opinion too. Because if you think through all those things when it’s not an emergency, you’ll have less thinking to do when it is — you’ll already have eliminated some bad ideas, or figured some things out. And it gives you a chance to ask your instructor questions about some of the scenarios you imagine  

Wendy P. 

[pchapman 279]

The AFF hop and pop is a good time to get the student to review their ability to make freefall time calculations.

They can calculate how long it takes from 5000' or whatever down to the minimum student opening height, which is still higher than the experienced jumper height, which is still higher than the experienced jumper height used to be in earlier years. The student will discover that they really have a LONG time to sort things out and pull, despite their instinctive fear that they "are low and have to pull soon."  

(Edit: Though I don't know at what point those calculations are taught in the US system. I'm more familiar with Canada, where a student might be already working their way through the apppropriate PIM, basically our SIM. In any case one can always do the calculation for the student...)

Edited April 21, 2022 by pchapman

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

8 hours ago, Rustbucket350 said:

That is a lot of information but I think it's good.  Seriously thank you.

 

7 hours ago, Rustbucket350 said:

Gonna run over all this with my instructors.  It's quite a bit.   I think for now the key is to relax and have a solid arch right out the door.  Luckily I'm not afraid of the door. I actually like it.

Bingo.

I agree with Wendy that the longer post is chock full of good info.

But your unwillingness to simply accept it and move on is one of the smartest things I've seen a student post in a while.

[sundevil777 102]

On 4/19/2022 at 3:46 AM, Rustbucket350 said:

Honestly what makes me afraid now is the hop n pop.  I know.  It should be easy  my instructors already reassured me that by the time I have to do it I'll be ready.   Hopefully that works out to be correct.  Probably still overthinking it.   Fly more.  Think less.  Exit time hop out and do it.

Must train the brain to trust the arch even if your exit orientation isn't right at first.

Be sure you don't kick/flail at all on exit.  Many have trouble being able to switch their brain into flight mode, so they flail for a little bit and that is awful for stability.  If you were to exit with your eyes closed and just trust the arch, you would likely do great because you wouldn't flail because your brain wouldn't think it needs to.  Gotta trust the arch even with your eyes open.

[wmw999 2,452]

19 hours ago, Rustbucket350 said:

Gonna run over all this with my instructors.  It's quite a bit.   I think for now the key is to relax and have a solid arch right out the door.  Luckily I'm not afraid of the door. I actually like it.

Something to consider is that if you can enter the windstream in the tunnel without flipping and going ass over teakettle, then you have the skills necessary to do it in freefall.

Wendy P.