askir 0 #1 April 25, 2006 6 years ago I lost my best friend due to a jumper's premature reserve deployment on the step, the aircraft was damaged, entered into a violent spin. My buddy was piloting and had observers on board, they all died. Yesterday a customer landed and handed me his rig for Inspection and repack...the first thing I noticed was this...see the picture, upon closer insption I noticed it was hard to slide the pin, so it could have been like this for a bit, I picked the rig obove my head, dropped it on the packing table and poof! you guessed it: instant launch. Now lets say a freefall colision, or a bump on the door, etc...this guy and his pals are very lucky. LIFE IS LIKE A CIGARETTE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND WATCH IT BURN AWAY OR YOU CAN SMOKE THAT BITCH TO THE FILTER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #2 April 25, 2006 Did you mean to post a picture with that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #3 April 25, 2006 Quotesee the picture You forgot the picture . . .Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
askir 0 #4 April 25, 2006 there it is...(on the original post) LIFE IS LIKE A CIGARETTE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND WATCH IT BURN AWAY OR YOU CAN SMOKE THAT BITCH TO THE FILTER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 April 25, 2006 is it the lack of distance to the end from the loop, or that it's not really clearing the grommit, or both? What minimum clearance to feel good about it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #6 April 25, 2006 I check my pins, including my reserve pin, before donning my rig on every jump. As a cameraflyer (or -any- skydiver who frequents the outside position of the plane for launch) I feel that this is the -least- I can do to avoid a premature and decided damage to the plane and possibly her contents.. Please people, check your pins! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nutz 0 #7 April 25, 2006 It looks to me like the string is NOT broken? Does that mean the rigger left it like that??????? "Don't! Get! Eliminated!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #8 April 25, 2006 QuoteIt looks to me like the string is NOT broken? Does that mean the rigger left it like that??????? Nope. Pins sometimes slide on their own. Sometimes they get moved by users when they do a pin check. Pin seating is one of those little things we should be checking before we use the rig. It's part of my morning pre-jump check, and when I see a tandem or student rig at the boarding area I always take a casual glance through the plastic window and check the pin seating. Maintenance issue like this are one of the reasons I don't want to see the repack cycle extended for commercial users. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #9 April 25, 2006 Bad juju. I caught one worse than that on jumprun, just before the door opened on a Porter. The end of the pin was not even on the grommet. Scared the poop outta me, and the owner, and the pilot, and everyone else on the plane. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #10 April 25, 2006 whats that red thread for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #11 April 25, 2006 Quotewhats that red thread for? I see you have your own gear. Open your reserve flap and take a look. If yours doesn't have the 'red thread' then I would highly advise you let your rigger know so he can seal your rig properly. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #12 April 25, 2006 Yossarian is from the UK where they don't have to have lead seals.... i'm sure we've had this discussion before...Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 April 25, 2006 The US is one of the only places that requires seals. This is due to a rigger accidently using red E thread and not the normal sealing thread and increasing pull forces too much.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #14 April 25, 2006 QuoteYossarian is from the UK where they don't have to have lead seals.... i'm sure we've had this discussion before... With that in mind... When a rigger packs a reserve here in the United States he is required to seal it with a thread and lead seal so that tampering can be identified. The same is true in many other countries. The BPA lists a specific method of sealing a reserve ripcord at http://www.bpa.org.uk/forms/docs/Form%20215%20-%20BPA%20Reserve%20Sealing%20Method.doc. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #15 April 25, 2006 It would seem that eliminating a bit of pull force is an advantage with no downside. Can you say what the industry wide opinion of this method is compared to what is done in the US?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #16 April 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt looks to me like the string is NOT broken? Does that mean the rigger left it like that??????? Nope. Pins sometimes slide on their own. Sometimes they get moved by users when they do a pin check. Pin seating is one of those little things we should be checking before we use the rig. It's part of my morning pre-jump check, and when I see a tandem or student rig at the boarding area I always take a casual glance through the plastic window and check the pin seating. Maintenance issue like this are one of the reasons I don't want to see the repack cycle extended for commercial users. . These are reasons I really like tomhttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #17 April 25, 2006 QuoteYossarian is from the UK where they don't have to have lead seals.... i'm sure we've had this discussion before... Doh! Thanks, should have checked the profile _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shunkka 0 #18 April 25, 2006 as one who had a double out becouse of a pincheck ERROR, i only can say... PLS check ur PIN (reserve/main) before every jump ------------------------- "jump, have fun, pull" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dzjohn 0 #19 April 26, 2006 Our reserves get a red seal on them over here in N.Z as well. Always check both pins brfore putting my rig on. I have seen a tandem exit before and his reserve deployed as soon as he left the plane, was close. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #20 April 26, 2006 Pin seating is not a little thing to be checking for. It is a BIG thing. What should you be checking when you open up your reserve flap when inspecting your rig? You check to make sure the pin is seated to just below the shoulder (the part of the pin where the thickness starts to flare out) and that the reserve closing loop is in good shape. And just to cooperate with the FAA, you check to make sure that your reserve seal is still in place. But a broken seal isn't the sort of thing that can bring down an entire load of unsuspecting jumpers. A worn closing loop or a reserve pin that is sneaking out is something that can most definitely kill people. Personally, before every jump I check to make sure that my reserve pin in seated properly and that the closing loop is in good shape. (Among many other things.) I don't think it is sufficient to just do this once a day (when making multiple jumps.) It is not that difficult for your reserve pin to get moved around a bit. All that has to happen is for something to tug on the swaged end of the reserve cable (the end at the handle) and without lots of effort the pin can be moved. Also.. since everyone was asking about the seal not being broken... The seal is not supposed to break until the reserve is opened. (It is hard to tell from that picture if the seal would have broken when the reserve was deployed.) The purpose of the seal is to prevent people from tampering with equipment and identifying who packed the rig last. I don't think that this example is a reason to not extend the repack cycle.. I think that this example is a reason why gear education should improve. Too many jumpers understand dangerously little about their gear. I think that this sort of lackadaisical attitude about gear knowledge and maintenance is scary. But with so many experienced jumpers who can't/won't pack their own gear.. I guess it's not surprising. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallfast69 3 #21 April 26, 2006 That is a great post! One little extra thing I'll do - at least once a day I check the travel of the cable through the housing. A small piece of gravel wedged in the housing can completely lock the cable against the housing and prevent the extraction of the pin. Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #22 April 26, 2006 Jon, I also do that.. I feel it is a really good thing to do. However.. I didn't feel like trying to explain how to do that over the internet. Don't want to be responsible when someone accidentally pulls their reserve! -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #23 April 26, 2006 we had the convo about the lead seals before i just didnt hear anything about thread, so if i went to the US and took a rig with me would the reserve have to be repacked and sealed properly before i could jump? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallfast69 3 #24 April 26, 2006 Thats funny...after I posted I started thinking the same thing - shoulda added "Kids, please don't try this at home as these gear checks are being performed by highly qualified professionals" to the post. If there is enough interest in the proper process for doing this check, I will do my best to explain it over the internet... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #25 April 27, 2006 Quotewe had the convo about the lead seals before i just didnt hear anything about thread, so if i went to the US and took a rig with me would the reserve have to be repacked and sealed properly before i could jump? Do a Search. It's been discussed/debated to death. Tom Buchanan's (tombuch) article is the definitive word on the subject, though it's worth noting that not all US dropzones appear to apply the rules as set out by Tom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
