unstable exits (large man meets small door)

[point-break 0]

Hey all,

I'm looking for some specific advice related to hitting a solid arch quickly as a very sizable guy (6'4" 215lbs).

I have a consistent problem exiting stable - from both the caravan in poised position (crouched at the door) but also from the cessna when standing on the landing gear. All other facets of my dive are executed safely and with precision, but I can't seem to find a way (either mentally or physically) to force myself into a perfect arch before destabilizing after exit.

Having read quite a few posts pertaining to exit issues, I'm becoming acquainted with what seem to be a good number of mental and physical strategies. But I haven't come across anything related to the size of the skydiver. And I do believe that my height presents somewhat of a challenge when dealing with poised exits from very low crouching positions. Even on the cessna, though less than out of the caravan, i'm in a position from which it is harder to spring into a solid arch than it would be if i were more upright.

Any suggestions are welcomed!

Many thanks!!

[Joellercoaster 6]

Hey...

you are still a student; don't feel too frustrated - a lot of people have stability issues, and video and instruction fix many ills.

Psychologically though, you can help yourself. I am 6'5" so I know where you're coming from with small doors; as a large economy size gentleman your priorities are 1) get through the door without hitting anything, and 2) present correctly when you hit the airstream.

Your size only really affects the first one. So get comfortable in the door, in a position where you feel balanced, as close to the outside as you can. Obviously if you start outside the plane it is easiest (get used to this, big folks do a lot of dangling outside) but as long as you are comfortable it should go ok.

The second one is a matter of practice, but also relaxation. If you try and thrust or force or "spring" your body out the door, it is harder to hit the wind at the right angle. So be firm but gentle (a weak exit doesn't work either). Your arms and legs are longer than normal people so they will give you more power - don't make big movements straight away.

The single most important thing straight out the door is your hips. Get your hips forward and down and your head up and back; this is where your arch comes from, not your arms and legs. At first the air is slower than at terminal so your torso is what matters - for the first half second of your exit you can keep your limbs close to your body, your knees well bent and think about gently extending them and maintaining your hips and shoulders perpendicular to the line of flight.

Once you have this down, you will find that the exact same principle applies to diving exits - they're just upside down, but the important stuff is the same.

TL;DR: Relax, get smoothly through the door, don't make big powerful movements.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Joellercoaster 6]

One important thing for everyone, not just the large - the best guarantee of stability out the door is the rectangle of the "four points" - hips and shoulders - being perpendicular to the oncoming ("relative") wind.

From a poised exit, this means the hips and shoulders are all heading directly sideways out the door, so they hit the airstream together and in the same plane. So think about sidestepping directly away from the fuselage, keeping your body facing the direction the plane is flying - the direction is more important than the power.

There are plenty of other ways to be stable, but this is the very simplest.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Try this simple trick... Poised exits from both the Cessna and the Caravan are similar (for this exercise). And, it's very simple... Find where the strut attaches to the wing and watch that spot as you leave the plane. Watch it for as long as possible and you'll find yourself, all of a sudden, stable.

Your head is the key here. You'll find that it's almost impossible to arch unless your head is back(try it). Conversely, it's just as difficult to de-arch with your head down. To watch that spot on the plane, you're head will have to be back forcing the arch that you need.

Hope this helps...

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

I was a few jumps into my A license before I had a really stable exit. I could get stable shortly thereafter, but couldn't actually exit stable for anything.

You're flying from the moment you're off the plane, so just hold a heading toward the front of the plane until your forward moment stops, and arch! At some point you will get it, and then it will be easy. I find it hard to actually be unstable at exit time anymore.

If you dive out with your ass to the prop, you're gonna have a bad time. I see this fairly regularly on student hop and pops. I'm pretty sure that was also my problem on a lot of my early exits.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[riggerrob 643]

Have you tried hanging exits from the smaller Cessna?

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

riggerrob

Have you tried hanging exits from the smaller Cessna?

Nah, I usually just dive out. Last time I went to full altitude in it, my leg fell asleep about halfway up and I ended up just skootching around and rolling out. I'm not as large as the OP and can get a decently poised exit from the door of the plane.

I did find that doors that gave me trouble magically got bigger as I progressed in the sport. King Air, perfect example. Getting my fat ass, a rig with a Nav 300 in it and 2 AFF instructors out the door of a king air was a royal pain. Even in coaching I didn't enjoy it so much compared to the Otter. Now, I have no trouble getting out of that plane.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[stayhigh 2]

I'm 6'6". I gave up on stable exit from the small Cessna. I barely can crawl out of it. Did one jump for the novelty and made a vow that I'll never jump out of anything smaller than a Grand Caravan.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[Joellercoaster 6]

The problem with little Cessnas (182 and friends) for big folks is trying to exit head-high. Hurling yourself out head-first over your hands is much less awkward

I feel for TIs, though.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[PixieUK 0]

point-break

I haven't come across anything related to the size of the skydiver. And I do believe that my height presents somewhat of a challenge when dealing with poised exits from very low crouching positions. Even on the cessna, though less than out of the caravan, i'm in a position from which it is harder to spring into a solid arch than it would be if i were more upright.

Any suggestions are welcomed!

Many thanks!!

Have a chat with your instructors before trying this, they are the ones who know you and the planes you are jumping from
I was being coached on alternative exits last weekend from a Grand Caravan along with a guy who is the same height as you (we needed fast stable exits for several people at once with no show permitted and we were the first two in the door). He was having trouble crouching (ie both knees off the floor) so our coach had us put our left foot down close to the door (left hand door, so facing the front of the plane) but kneeling on our right leg, with more weight actually on that leg than on the left. Then when it was time to exit, we just stepped the left foot out of the door (not jumping or diving) and tilted out sideways, keeping the right shoulder back and looking up towards the wing. It felt really weird in the mockup on the ground (we put mats on the floor to fall onto, lol) but in the air, it worked really well. As soon as the left foot 'steps' sideways out of the plane, the rest of your body will follow quite naturally. So long as you keep your shoulders and hips square on to the wind flow as Joeller describes, you will be stable.

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[lyosha 50]

point-break

Hey all,

I'm looking for some specific advice related to hitting a solid arch quickly as a very sizable guy (6'4" 215lbs).

I have a consistent problem exiting stable - from both the caravan in poised position (crouched at the door) but also from the cessna when standing on the landing gear. All other facets of my dive are executed safely and with precision, but I can't seem to find a way (either mentally or physically) to force myself into a perfect arch before destabilizing after exit.

Having read quite a few posts pertaining to exit issues, I'm becoming acquainted with what seem to be a good number of mental and physical strategies. But I haven't come across anything related to the size of the skydiver. And I do believe that my height presents somewhat of a challenge when dealing with poised exits from very low crouching positions. Even on the cessna, though less than out of the caravan, i'm in a position from which it is harder to spring into a solid arch than it would be if i were more upright.

Any suggestions are welcomed!

Many thanks!!

Hi guy!

6'5" ~200 here. Going through poised exits in AFF was a pain in the ass. I had maybe one good exit where I didn't go unstable. It's hard as **** to exit in an orderly fashion when you barely fit in the door.

Switch to diving exits as soon as you can, they'll make life a lot easier. If not that ask your AFF instructor to do outside floating exits instead.

Things get easier as you get better at flying your body, you just have to suffer through AFF poised exits for a few jumps :)

[ufk22 33]

The first couple of seconds off the plane it's less about the arch than is is about the presentation and the "relative wind".
Until you have terminal air to play with, it's less the aerodynamics and more the momentum of your body. If you exit with too much push, you will go past that stable position.
Also, remember not to try to get belly to earth, rather belly to the horizon and ride the hill.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[WV177RG 19]

Hi. 6'4" 210--I sympathize, especially riding to altitude in C-182.

We have more surface area to control than our colleagues. Our rigs are larger. Video of your exits would be invaluable in revealing how closely your body position and orientation to the relative wind resemble what you've been taught. Look to your instructors for guidance. Also, have them explain aircraft pitch attitude on exit: leaving a Twin Otter or Caravan door with the aircraft tail low increases possibility of striking tail, especially if you inadvertently spring up when you launch.

You'll have more exit position options after your student progression. I enjoy diving exits solo, but prefer outside floater positions for relative work = easier to maneuver my frame into exit position, gives me time to check the spot, look for traffic, dig the sky, clouds and my colleagues. Floater track back "up" to formation is fun!

Good luck, relax and enjoy your student jumps!