Ukraine

[wmw999 2,444]

The hundredth monkey is a largely discredited theory; it’s more complicated than that. But more than anything, if true, the hundredth monkey is only the last one to take some outlandish idea on before it supposedly becomes general. He’s not the harbinger of truth. And an identification with a hundredth monkey kind of implies an outsized sense of one’s influence.

This is my perception, not the result of detailed analysis  but then most people who come here with lots of claims to true knowledge tend to have an outsized sense of their importance. Among other things, this is the not-quite-moribund political subforum of a skydiving website; it’s where the people who just couldn’t play nicely with the others were consigned to. 

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 444]

3 hours ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

While Zelensky outlaws opposition parties, he pays his dues down in the Azovstal Steel Mill nuclear bunker/dungeon...

(80) WEAPONIZED AIDS - ZELENSKY IN HIGH HEELS - YouTube

Your video must be very distressing for Russia.  Imagine the embarrassment for the world’s largest country to be getting its ass kicked by a small effeminate high heal wearing Zelenskyy.

[wmw999 2,444]

I can’t believe I just did that

Wendy P. 

[yoink 321]

Finland have announced their request to join NATO, with Sweden not far behind.

You can’t help thinking that maybe this war is having the opposite effect to part of Putins reason for starting it in the first place - certainly Russias geographical defensibility will be worse in the long run now than it was previously.

Hopefully it doesn’t push him to do anything rash.

[Erroll 80]

2 hours ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

The Hundredth Monkey eludes to a critical mass of a certain action.

Common sense appears to elude you.

[Phil1111 1,149]

6 hours ago, metalslug said:

Trump has certainly been flattering of Putin in earlier times, but you would do well to take an actual look at "these days"; Barely a month ago Trump was asked during an interview with Piers Morgan if he would now agree that Putin was a "...an evil genocidal monster?" and responded with "I do, for sure, and who wouldn't? What’s happening is horrible." , in addition to stating that he regarded Putin's threats of nuclear strikes as unacceptable and would counter them with reminders of the West's superior arsenal.  Therefore; these days it's not the 'best mates' narrative that lefties continue to sell.  I dislike Trump myself, I've said it several times, but he should be disliked for valid reasons rather than outdated narratives.

That is not true. Like everything else about trump he likes to play both sides of any issue. Then play to his base. Then blame others.

Feb 22, 2022 "Donald Trump on Wednesday called Russian President Vladimir Putin "very smart" for launching a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, suggesting that he supports a military conflict that will lead to untold civilian death. 

"I mean, he's taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions. I'd say that's pretty smart," Trump said during a Mar-a-Lago fundraiser. "He's taking over a country, literally, a vast, vast, location, a great piece of land with a lot of people, and just walking right in." 

Despite praising the invasion, Trump also claimed that it "never would have happened" under his watch, saying that he knows Putin "very well … almost as well as anybody in this room."

"March 1: “The RINOs, Warmongers, and Fake News continue to blatantly lie and misrepresent my remarks on Putin because they know this terrible war being waged against Ukraine would have never happened under my watch … There should be no war waging now in Ukraine, and it is terrible for humanity that Biden, NATO, and the West have failed so terribly in allowing it to start.”

So they are to blame and not Putin?

"March 15: “Now with what’s going on with Russia and Ukraine, among many other things, the great and wonderful people of Hungary need the continued strong leadership of Prime Minister Viktor Orban more than ever.” (Note that, among the NATO countries, Orbán has taken a uniquely pro-Russia stance. So Trump’s argument that “what’s going on with Russia and Ukraine” makes his election more important directly implies that Orbán’s refusal to support NATO’s response to the invasion makes him more valuable.)

Only once did Trump use an active-voice construction to identify Russia as the aggressor (“If the Election wasn’t Rigged … Russia would not have attacked Ukraine”). On every other occasion, he has relied on verbal contortions to mask its author."

Not once has trump called for Russia to get out of Ukraine. Not once has he called out Putin's crimes in Ukraine. Instead he praises Orban of Hungary. The sole European country refusing to limit Russian oil exports.

trump would never have led, or allowed, any international effort to sanction Putin. That is a fact.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Phil1111

[jakee 1,489]

2 hours ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

The Hundredth Monkey eludes

That’s not the word you were looking for.

2 hours ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

to a critical mass of a certain action.
 

That doesn’t mean anything.

[gowlerk 2,190]

55 minutes ago, Erroll said:

Common sense appears to elude you.

As does spelling and grammar apparently. Here is a link to help the lonely monkey.

 

https://ielts.idp.com/canada/prepare/article-grammar-101-elude-vs-allude

[BillyVance 34]

2 hours ago, yoink said:

Finland have announced their request to join NATO, with Sweden not far behind.

You can’t help thinking that maybe this war is having the opposite effect to part of Putins reason for starting it in the first place - certainly Russias geographical defensibility will be worse in the long run now than it was previously.

Hopefully it doesn’t push him to do anything rash.

Only one problem... To join NATO, the vote by all NATO countries must be unanimous. Turkey isn't supporting their inclusion. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

[gowlerk 2,190]

Just now, BillyVance said:

Only one problem... To join NATO, the vote by all NATO countries must be unanimous. Turkey isn't supporting their inclusion. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

I heard a brief mention of that, then nothing more. It's a good point, Turkey is a very reluctant NATO member and is always troublesome. 

[BillyVance 34]

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

That is not true. Like everything else about trump he likes to play both sides of any issue. Then play to his base. Then blame others.

Kind of like how Biden has been blaming everyone else except his own administration for all of his policy failures, record border crossings, record inflation, record crime, record gas prices, etc? 

Riiiiiiiight. 

[BillyVance 34]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I heard a brief mention of that, then nothing more. It's a good point, Turkey is a very reluctant NATO member and is always troublesome. 

They do have somewhat good ties to Russia and yes that is a problem. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

1 minute ago, BillyVance said:

Only one problem... To join NATO, the vote by all NATO countries must be unanimous. Turkey isn't supporting their inclusion. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

IMO Finland and Sweden should be voted in and Turkey voted out. Sweden and Finland have given sanctuary to some Islamic members and groups that Turkey has issues with. Associated with the coup and the PKK. So Turkey is likely going to want accommodation for that.

U.S. sanctions Turkey over purchase of Russian S-400 missile system

 

[yoink 321]

5 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

Only one problem... To join NATO, the vote by all NATO countries must be unanimous. Turkey isn't supporting their inclusion. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

True. 
Turkey has been complaining for years that Sweden and Finland support the PKK terrorist groups in their country, but have never provided any proof.

I suspect that a promise that ‘we won’t do that’ is probably enough to get past that hurdle.

 

[yoink 321]

1 minute ago, Phil1111 said:

IMO Finland and Sweden should be voted in and Turkey voted out. Sweden and Finland have given sanctuary to some Islamic members and groups that Turkey has issues with. Associated with the coup and the PKK. So Turkey is likely going to want accommodation for that.

U.S. sanctions Turkey over purchase of Russian S-400 missile system

 

I agree 100%

 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

3 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I can’t believe I just did that

Wendy P. 

It ain't easy being green. No worries, only we'un's need be concerned over our permanent records.

[Phil1111 1,149]

24 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

... Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

18 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

Kind of like how Biden has been blaming everyone else except his own administration for all of his policy failures, record border crossings, record inflation, record crime, record gas prices, etc? 

Riiiiiiiight. 

Well I could go on for pages. The US federal reserve has the independent duty to control inflation. Not Biden. Gas prices are determined by supply demand and international market forces. Not the President.

America Is Having a Violence Wave, Not a Crime Wave

“There was no crime wave—there was a tsunami of lethal violence, and that’s it,” Philip Cook, a crime expert at Duke University, wrote to me in an email.

"The murder rate rose by nearly 30 percent, the largest increase on record. There were about 21,500 murders, or 6.5 per 100,000 people. Aggravated assault, the most common form of violent crime, rose 12 percent. Among other components of the violent-crime rate, robbery actually decreased and rape reports were flat. But property crimes overall fell 8 percent, led by drops in burglary and larceny—though motor-vehicle theft increased."

I'm sure you'll be blaming Biden for the murders in Buffalo this weekend. But wrong is right for you.

[BillyVance 34]

26 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

IMO Finland and Sweden should be voted in and Turkey voted out. Sweden and Finland have given sanctuary to some Islamic members and groups that Turkey has issues with. Associated with the coup and the PKK. So Turkey is likely going to want accommodation for that.

U.S. sanctions Turkey over purchase of Russian S-400 missile system

 

I'd be interested to know what it takes to kick Turkey out. It's a Muslim majority nation whose values rarely align with the rest of NATO, no?

[gowlerk 2,190]

3 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

I'd be interested to know what it takes to kick Turkey out. It's a Muslim majority nation whose values rarely align with the rest of NATO, no?

Their values did align more at one time. Not as much today. But the geography has not changed. They need NATO more than their leader wants to admit.

Edited May 15, 2022 by gowlerk

[BillyVance 34]

Just now, gowlerk said:

They need NATO more than their leader wants to admit.

Curious to understand why? 

[Phil1111 1,149]

6 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

I'd be interested to know what it takes to kick Turkey out. It's a Muslim majority nation whose values rarely align with the rest of NATO, no?

That i don't know but its no longer a real democracy. The rise and fall of liberal democracy in Turkey: Implications for the West

Scores poor on the rule of law.

Gutted civil and political liberties.

IMO if Turkey invoked article five there may be allot of NATO countries that call in sick.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Phil1111

[BillyVance 34]

Just now, Phil1111 said:

That i don't know but its no longer a real democracy. The rise and fall of liberal democracy in Turkey: Implications for the West

Scores poor on the rule of law.

Gutted civil and political liberties.

Yeah they have increasingly become more of a hard line government, not unlike many of the middle east countries. 

Refresh my memory on why NATO brought them in, anybody? Was it so we could set up nuke launch bases there? 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

1 minute ago, BillyVance said:

I'd be interested to know what it takes to kick Turkey out. It's a Muslim majority nation whose values rarely align with the rest of NATO, no?

Geopolitics can be confusing. Grab a map. The Bosphorus connects the Sea of Marmara and the Dardanelles connects the Sea of Marmara to the Aegean Sea. Both run through Turkey. That, and to put it mildly, most NATO countries have divergent interests at some level. It is simply a marriage of convenience not a religious litmus test.

[BillyVance 34]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Geopolitics can be confusing. Grab a map. The Bosphorus connects the Sea of Marmara and the Dardanelles connects the Sea of Marmara to the Aegean Sea. Both run through Turkey. That, and to put it mildly, most NATO countries have divergent interests at some level. It is simply a marriage of convenience not a religious litmus test.

I agree with that. Turkey is also preventing Russia from sending warships through the bosphorus strait to aid the war effort in Ukraine, so there's that. 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

Just now, BillyVance said:

I agree with that. Turkey is also preventing Russia from sending warships through the bosphorus strait to aid the war effort in Ukraine, so there's that. 

Exactly. There are treaties governing use, of course. However, while an easement to pass through a property is good, having your kissing cousin own the land is much better.