Ukraine

[JoeWeber 2,810]

20 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Biden has consider our NATO allies.  If you know how Europe can replace 40+% of their natural gas, in the middle of winter, I would love to know.  If we sanction Russian oil and gas and the Eurozone doesn’t we will only be hurting ourselves.

They're all supposed to have 60 day's of consumption in reserve. That gets them to May, rationing further. We go mad rush to produce all we can, same with Canada, Norway and the Brits. We send a nice note to OPEC mentioning that timing is everything and this time we will not F'n forget who stood by and who stood with us. We accept that burning fossil fuels is less of an issue than burning cities for the time being. 

[brenthutch 444]

16 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

They're all supposed to have 60 day's of consumption in reserve. That gets them to May, rationing further. We go mad rush to produce all we can, same with Canada, Norway and the Brits. We send a nice note to OPEC mentioning that timing is everything and this time we will not F'n forget who stood by and who stood with us. We accept that burning fossil fuels is less of an issue than burning cities for the time being. 

“Unusually low gas reserves have raised alarm among several European governments in recent months, with storage tanks across the continent on average at only 31% capacity at the start of this week – roughly half as full as in 2020.

In Germany, reserves have been particularly low in storage tanks run by the Russian state-owned energy giant Gazprom, seemingly highlighting the country’s restricted room for meaningful sanctions in the case of an escalating conflict on the Ukrainian border.”

[gowlerk 2,245]

18 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

That gets them to May, rationing further.

Yeah, rationing. Like stopping frivolous fuel wasting activities like skydiving. Sailboats okay.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

4 hours ago, gowlerk said:

What I don't really understand is why the rivalry between Russia and the west even exists any longer. Both Ukraine and Russia should be part of NATO by now. I can only assume that after the cold war ended and Stalinism collapsed elements of the KGB et al just could not accept moving on to the very prosperous future that the Russian people deserve and could have had.

Russia was desperate for Western aid after the collapse of the Soviet Union, but they were largely rebuffed.  Perhaps GHW Bush, Thatcher, et al were too wedded to their personal history of only knowing the Soviet Union as a mortal enemy.  I suspect that the USA needed to have an antagonist to justify their giant military, and they couldn't adjust to the disappearance of communist Russia without another enemy at hand to switch to.  It would have been too disruptive to the US economy to scale back the military/industrial complex and put their manufacturing strength into making products for the civilian world, not to mention employing all those ex-military personnel.  So the opportunity slipped away, Yeltsin was replaced with Putin, and here we are.

[JoeWeber 2,810]

14 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

“Unusually low gas reserves have raised alarm among several European governments in recent months, with storage tanks across the continent on average at only 31% capacity at the start of this week – roughly half as full as in 2020.

In Germany, reserves have been particularly low in storage tanks run by the Russian state-owned energy giant Gazprom, seemingly highlighting the country’s restricted room for meaningful sanctions in the case of an escalating conflict on the Ukrainian border.”

Where's the quote from? But also, who cares? They should feel the pain of small armies and low reserves no less than Texas should feel the pain of expensive electricity when their grid fails.

[JoeWeber 2,810]

13 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yeah, rationing. Like stopping frivolous fuel wasting activities like skydiving. Sailboats okay.

Yes, maybe THEY should. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

.... We send a nice note to OPEC mentioning that timing is everything and this time we will not F'n forget who stood by and who stood with us. We accept that burning fossil fuels is less of an issue than burning cities for the time being. 

Why the US needs Saudi Arabia to help put pressure on Russia and the answer from the same story "MbS seems to take a different view. He is said to be resentful that President Biden is not prepared to have a one-on-one meeting with him, either in person or by phone...Currently, the odds do not look favorable on any concession by the Saudi side." To increase oil supply.

The answer from the Saudi side is already on the table. But more than that is the lesson for all the petty dictators. Kim, the Iranian Ayatollahs, MbS himself who had a deal with trump to buy nuclear weapons technology under the table. Even the powerful west shows deference when nukes are ready.

[gowlerk 2,245]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Even the powerful west shows deference when nukes are ready.

I seriously am in favour of Canada having a nuclear weapons program. The day will come when we need to deter the southern aggressor. In the meantime I think that Biden should issue a statement encouraging the Russian military to overthrow the madman in the Kremlin. It would make him wild.

[JoeWeber 2,810]

17 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I seriously am in favour of Canada having a nuclear weapons program. The day will come when we need to deter the southern aggressor. In the meantime I think that Biden should issue a statement encouraging the Russian military to overthrow the madman in the Kremlin. It would make him wild.

Of course you'll come back claiming you were joking but I won't be a buyer. I'm just glad calmer heads are in charge. Now is not the time to piss off anyone, especially Putin. I will state it again, we need to play the long game. In the immediate term, because sanctions take too long to be effective, we need to begin dismantling the Nord Stream 2 line. We need to have serious discussions with our allies, and maybe Canada, too, about countering energy levered future world conflicts. No ultimatums. No threats. No US Combat teams moved  into position. None of that useless nonsense. Just act like we get it but it's over now. That will change the game.

Edited February 25, 2022 by JoeWeber

[BIGUN 1,396]

16 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The day will come when we need to deter the southern aggressor.

!

[kallend 2,105]

The US spends more on "defense" than the next 10 nations combined, and most of them are our allies anyway.

Seems like a big waste of money for all the good it does us.

[wmw999 2,515]

Sorry, I kind of like the thought of Biden spinning up the military. Won’t work (soldiers who haven’t been to war might see it as a chance to advance — ones who haven’t often see it differently)

Wendy P. 

[JoeWeber 2,810]

6 minutes ago, kallend said:

The US spends more on "defense" than the next 10 nations combined, and most of them are our allies anyway.

Seems like a big waste of money for all the good it does us.

Totally. Time for our allies to have over bloated militaries and we have free healthcare and workers protections, and I am not joking.

[BIGUN 1,396]

33 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

No threats. No US Combat teams moved  into position. None of that useless nonsense. Just act like we get it but it's over now. That will change the game.

Joe, I do love you, but I really find this disturbing. If we, as a nation can't help another getting the shit kicked out of them - I fear we have lost our moral compass.  

[headoverheels 333]

10 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I understand. In this case, I have lived it and seen it for too long. People are getting killed while we shake our finger. The only way to deal with a charging bear is with a large caliber weapon. 

Or you can just shoot your friend with a small caliber weapon, and run away.

 

[ryoder 1,590]

58 minutes ago, kallend said:

The US spends more on "defense" than the next 10 nations combined, and most of them are our allies anyway.

Seems like a big waste of money for all the good it does us.

You know we could put that money to better use:

Offer cash rewards to any Russian soldiers to defect to the Ukraine army. With a range of bonuses for any weapons/vehicles they bring with them.

Or if they don't want to fight anymore, offer them a little land in Montana where they can raise rabbits, introduce them to round American women, and give them a pickup truck they can drive from state to state.

Edited February 26, 2022 by ryoder

[JoeWeber 2,810]

33 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Joe, I do love you, but I really find this disturbing. If we, as a nation can't help another getting the shit kicked out of them - I fear we have lost our moral compass.  

We must think strategically. We are giving ground, yes. But our moral compass will remain intact if we act to stop the expansion in ways that will work. We're fresh out of magic wands. Time to retrench and get after a real solution. We also need to establish with our allies that it's not on us, they need to start acting seriously.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

We also need to establish with our allies that it's not on us, they need to start acting seriously.

Wonder what market rent is for Ramstein and the transit rights now given for free.

Edited February 26, 2022 by SkyDekker

[BIGUN 1,396]

8 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

We also need to establish with our allies that it's not on us, they need to start acting seriously.

We agree on this. 

[ryoder 1,590]

Jake Tapper: "Nice space station you got there; Be a shame if something happened to it." LOL!

 

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,424]

26 minutes ago, ryoder said:

You know we could put that money to better use:

Offer cash rewards to any Russian soldiers to defect to the Ukraine army. With a range of bonuses for any weapons/vehicles they bring with them.

Or if they don't want to fight anymore, offer them a little land in Montana where they can raise rabbits, introduce them to round American women, and give them a pickup truck they can drive from state to state.

Hi Robert,

You have watched The Hunt for Red October too many times.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 1,149]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I seriously am in favour of Canada having a nuclear weapons program. The day will come when we need to deter the southern aggressor. In the meantime I think that Biden should issue a statement encouraging the Russian military to overthrow the madman in the Kremlin. It would make him wild.

They have an aggressive war like mentality incomparable with Canadian social norms. While Canadians play hockey to vent aggressive tendencies. They love guns and like to shoot each other. Although France(language) or the UK(founding heritage) both have nuclear weapons. Thus they could be our nuclear shield. They go to war so seldom as to be lacking in training and discipline.

What about a wall? Either that or just sell them more Manitoba hydro and bank the money. Within 20 years Canada would have them as dependent as Germany is to Russia for nat gas.With all the Teslas they are buying. Soon Canada could just buy America.

[Phil1111 1,149]

47 minutes ago, ryoder said:

You know we could put that money to better use:

Offer cash rewards to any Russian soldiers to defect to the Ukraine army. With a range of bonuses for any weapons/vehicles they bring with them.

Or if they don't want to fight anymore, offer them a little land in Montana where they can raise rabbits, introduce them to round American women, and give them a pickup truck they can drive from state to state.

"In the 20 years since September 11, 2001, the United States has spent more than $2 trillion on the war in Afghanistan. That’s $300 million dollars per day, every day, for two decades. Or $50,000 for each of Afghanistan's 40 million people."

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

“We must think strategically. We are giving ground, yes. But our moral compass will remain intact if we act to stop the expansion in ways that will work.”

Neville Chamberlain 

At some point we will have to grow a pair and punch Putin in the nose.

Edited February 26, 2022 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,810]

22 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

At some point we will have to grow a pair and punch Putin in the nose.

I suspect you are perfect for attacking when told to attack. I am glad you are nowhere near the actual decision.