Aff help and advice!!

[tigra 0]

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Having said that, I fully understand not sugar coating debriefings. The people who are making you feel bad for doing something wrong are trying to save your life.

Exactly-if you read the OP's description of the jump, he was unstable, froze and did not deploy his parachute. That's not something you can sugar coat in a debrief. He's lucky to be alive and it sounds to me like these 2 instructors did everything to help this guy in the air AND on the ground afterwards. Now he's online complaining that they weren't nice or understanding enough. No one is doing him any favors by agreeing with him there.

[Remster 30]

tigra

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Having said that, I fully understand not sugar coating debriefings. The people who are making you feel bad for doing something wrong are trying to save your life.

Exactly-if you read the OP's description of the jump, he was unstable, froze and did not deploy his parachute. That's not something you can sugar coat in a debrief. He's lucky to be alive and it sounds to me like these 2 instructors did everything to help this guy in the air AND on the ground afterwards. Now he's online complaining that they weren't nice or understanding enough. No one is doing him any favors by agreeing with him there.

Yep. This aint bowling.

Remster

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Remster

Yep. This aint bowling.

Agreed, but it's not time for the bowling speech yet. The OP has lots of jumps to redeem himself. Hopefully, he understands the beer rules.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[Prolly_Nervous 0]

I'm not knocking them at all , if you read my post and understood it fully you would see that . I'm not blaming them for being mean to me lol . I deserved it after a terrible jump . They just weren't what I expected them to be on the ground afterwards . There was no constructive ciritizsm . It was more of " what are you doing up there ? " or " I don't care if it's your first jump or your 10,000th jump , seriously ?" So if you just went through what I did you would be saying the same thing . I respect them for the job they are doing for all us here in AFF . But I don't respect them for the way they handled the situation . They both have numerous complaints for the same sort of behavior after jumps . That's my DZs fault for not handling the situation. I went there yesterday with an ice cold case of beer and an apology for sounding like a prick after my jump. They apologized as well for not handling it the best they could have afterwards and we sat and drank and discussed my jump and what needs to be done better for a better experience . No harm done

[tigra 0]

I read your posts- all of them- and you did knock those guys several times. Go back and re-read them if you don't believe me. You're still knocking them. Skydiving is a dangerous and unforgiving sport. They did their best to drive that point home. You didn't like the delivery and I get that. Your perspective may change after a few more years in the sport.

I'm happy you went back and talked it over with them and I wish you the best of luck on your future jumps.

My student progression started with 3 "working tandems" then AFP. My first 2 tandems were great. The 3rd started with a poised exit, me outside the plane staring at the spinning prop. I froze and held on to the plane like there was no tomorrow. The tandem master had to peel me off, and then I pulled low- maybe 5k instead of 5.5? Not my best skydive to say the least and for panic to set in on my 3rd jump? Like you, I got an earful on the ground (because of the low pull and because delaying the exit like I did could have hosed the rest of the load.) I was embarrassed and I thought he was kind of a dick about it but the next day when I started my AFP classroom training, I was at the mock up practicing my exit before class and during every single break. My next poised exit was perfect and I didn't lose altitude awareness again during the rest of my student jumps- I got the message in spite of or maybe because of the less than gentle delivery and it made me a better skydiver.

[ufk22 33]

Prolly_Nervous

I'm not knocking them at all , if you read my post and understood it fully you would see that . I'm not blaming them for being mean to me lol . I deserved it after a terrible jump . They just weren't what I expected them to be on the ground afterwards . There was no constructive ciritizsm . It was more of " what are you doing up there ? " or " I don't care if it's your first jump or your 10,000th jump , seriously ?" So if you just went through what I did you would be saying the same thing . I respect them for the job they are doing for all us here in AFF . But I don't respect them for the way they handled the situation . They both have numerous complaints for the same sort of behavior after jumps . That's my DZs fault for not handling the situation. I went there yesterday with an ice cold case of beer and an apology for sounding like a prick after my jump. They apologized as well for not handling it the best they could have afterwards and we sat and drank and discussed my jump and what needs to be done better for a better experience . No harm done

Welcome to the old school world of skydiving. This is how I was taught 25 years ago, but this is NOT how I teach rating candidates to teach. I think the idea back then was that the "weak" needed to be culled from the sport, so if you couldn't take the heat, "go away". If you manage to come back (especially with beer) after that, you might be ok.
But, that was then, this is now.
I'm not saying that I have never had a serious discussion with a student, but I find it very hard to defend the actions of instructors who work this way today. The "they saved your life so quit your bitching" mentality is more of the same old school crap.
The IRM is a very good source for techniques of teaching through positive reinforcement and giving proper constructive criticism when needed. It's worth a read for those that got ratings before it existed.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Hmmm?? Now you're throwing the instructors under the bus. We haven't even heard their side of this story (and probably won't). It sounds like the OP got thru it without any further injury and is looking forward to his next jump. Please, let's not make this a forum to publicly disgrace otherwise great instructors. Especially since we don't have all the facts.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[ufk22 33]

I'm not throwing anyone under the bus. I obviously don't know who the two instructors were or exactly what they did, just saying I've seen plenty of this over the years in our sport and continue to see it today.
There are better ways.
AFF or any instructional rating is a lot less about skydiving ability than it is about being able to TEACH the student something. If you don't teach the student something in a way that they actually learn, you are not an "otherwise great instructor", you're just getting paid.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.