Reality check

[olofscience 489]

11 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Then why does Putin still have them by the balls?

Has it actually occurred to you that Europe doesn't have vast fields of natural gas?

[Phil1111 1,149]

6 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Has it actually occurred to you that Europe doesn't have vast fields of natural gas?

It has, but feigning ignorance of certain aspects of energy supply and demand. Is all apart of his shtick.

[brenthutch 444]

49 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Has it actually occurred to you that Europe doesn't have vast fields of natural gas?

They have more than enough to replace imported Russian gas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_gas_by_country

Edited April 16, 2022 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,836]

46 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

They have more than enough to replace imported Russian gas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_gas_by_country

Then it's time for Europe to quit fracking around and get after it. Before the Ukraine invasion it was easy to look, hopefully, towards a different sort of transition from fossil fuels. No more. Russia can not be trusted. Period. The Saudis can not be trusted. Period. The Indians can not be trusted. Period. And closer to home, it is galling that suddenly Sweden and Finland want to fast track NATO admission. We will not meet any CO2 targets. So be it. We need to face reality and understand that we need to deal with that later. Now we all need to find a way to cease being beholding to our enemies.

[brenthutch 444]

8 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Then it's time for Europe to quit fracking around and get after it. Before the Ukraine invasion it was easy to look, hopefully, towards a different sort of transition from fossil fuels. No more. Russia can not be trusted. Period. The Saudis can not be trusted. Period. The Indians can not be trusted. Period. And closer to home, it is galling that suddenly Sweden and Finland want to fast track NATO admission. We will not meet any CO2 targets. So be it. We need to face reality and understand that we need to deal with that later. Now we all need to find a way to cease being beholding to our enemies.

And Joe takes the Red Pill 

[gowlerk 2,251]

16 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Now we all need to find a way to cease being beholding to our enemies.

Don't worry. We've got your back with the tar sands. All we need is more rail tank cars to deliver it with.

[brenthutch 444]

10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Don't worry. We've got your back with the tar sands. All we need is more rail tank cars to deliver it with.

If only we had a pipeline 

[JoeWeber 2,836]

33 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

And Joe takes the Red Pill 

The facts have changed substantially, in my opinion. The simple fact that there is even credible discussion of limited nuclear war in Eastern Europe requires a big rethink. Please don't forget, it has been reliance on fossil fuels and the transfer of wealth to our enemies that made this sad situation possible.

[JoeWeber 2,836]

33 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Don't worry. We've got your back with the tar sands. All we need is more rail tank cars to deliver it with.

Hang in there, someone will be along to help any day now.

[billvon 3,076]

14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Then why does Putin still have them by the balls?

Because that doesn't happen overnight.

[olofscience 489]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

They have more than enough to replace imported Russian gas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_gas_by_country

For the millionth time you don't read your own links do you? From your own goddamn link:

Quote

A 2012 report from the European Commission states that, unlike the United States, "Shale gas production will not make Europe self-sufficient in natural gas. The best case scenario for shale gas development in Europe is one in which declining conventional production can be replaced and import dependence maintained at a level of around 60%."

Translated to brentian level english: EVEN IF they drilled and fracked, they will still need to import 60% of their gas needs. (if you still don't get it, 60% is more than half).

Putin would still have them by the balls if he supplied 60% of Europe's gas needs.

Edited April 16, 2022 by olofscience

[JoeWeber 2,836]

4 minutes ago, olofscience said:

For the millionth time you don't read your own links do you? From your own goddamn link:

Translated to brentian level english: EVEN IF they drilled and fracked, they will still need to import 60% of their gas needs. (if you still don't get it, 60% is more than half).

Putin would still have them by the balls if he supplied 60% of Europe's gas needs.

Yes. However they should do whatever they can, as fast as they can, to get off the Saudi and Russian tit. Nuclear, Solar, Wind, Fracking, Import from friends, whatever. What more ludicrous situation could exist than Western Europe sending arms to Ukraine to beat back the Russians while continuing to fund the Russian military with fossil fuel purchases? All of our choices now are shitty but that's how it works sometimes.

[olofscience 489]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

Yes. However they should do whatever they can, as fast as they can, to get off the Saudi and Russian tit. Nuclear, Solar, Wind, Fracking, Import from friends, whatever. What more ludicrous situation could exist than Western Europe sending arms to Ukraine to beat back the Russians while continuing to fund the Russian military with fossil fuel purchases? All of our choices now are shitty but that's how it works sometimes.

Agreed there, but brent directly stated they had more than enough to replace Russian gas. Which was a complete lie.

And of course he hasn't done the maths...

[JoeWeber 2,836]

4 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Agreed there, but brent directly stated they had more than enough to replace Russian gas. Which was a complete lie.

And of course he hasn't done the maths...

Yes, indeed, as ever. And now that I've swallowed the Red Pill (boy, does that say plenty) I guess I'll need to give up fine Burgundies for huffing exhaust fumes. I simply think we need to beat those bastards as fast as possible and get back on track with not roasting the planet with excessive CO2.

[olofscience 489]

8 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I simply think we need to beat those bastards as fast as possible and get back on track with not roasting the planet with excessive CO2.

Luckily, those objectives aren't mutually exclusive. A massive increase in renewables as fast as possible will also help beat the bastards. Heck, even building more nuclear would help. It won't happen overnight, but brent's fantasy that drilling will save the day is contradicted by his very own linked article.

And that's the reality check.

[JerryBaumchen 1,444]

29 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Yes, indeed, as ever. And now that I've swallowed the Red Pill (boy, does that say plenty) I guess I'll need to give up fine Burgundies for huffing exhaust fumes. I simply think we need to beat those bastards as fast as possible and get back on track with not roasting the planet with excessive CO2.

Hi Joe,

Re:  we need to beat those bastards

From the news, Biden's latest support package includes helicopters.  I am only hoping that fighter jets will be next.

It is hard for me to accept Biden's argument that supplying fighter jets would bring WW III yet still send other types of aircraft.

I'll take it as every bit helps.

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,590]

18 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

Re:  we need to beat those bastards

From the news, Biden's latest support package includes helicopters.  I am only hoping that fighter jets will be next.

It is hard for me to accept Biden's argument that supplying fighter jets would bring WW III yet still send other types of aircraft.

I'll take it as every bit helps.

Jerry Baumchen

Slovakia may be donating Mig-29's:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-slovakia-donating-mig-29-fighters-is-fine-by-the-u-s

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, olofscience said:

For the millionth time you don't read your own links do you? From your own goddamn link:

Translated to brentian level english: EVEN IF they drilled and fracked, they will still need to import 60% of their gas needs. (if you still don't get it, 60% is more than half).

Putin would still have them by the balls if he supplied 60% of Europe's gas needs.

But he wouldn’t.  OPEC, US and Canada could make that up. Just because it conflicts with your world view doesn’t make it a lie.

Edited April 16, 2022 by brenthutch

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, olofscience said:

For the millionth time you don't read your own links do you? From your own goddamn link:

Translated to brentian level english: EVEN IF they drilled and fracked, they will still need to import 60% of their gas needs. (if you still don't get it, 60% is more than half).

Putin would still have them by the balls if he supplied 60% of Europe's gas needs.

The EU got 40% of its natural gas from Russia in 2021.  Try doing the math again.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiE_6H8kpn3AhUSmeAKHb3DD_YQFnoECAUQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.weforum.org%2Fagenda%2F2022%2F03%2Feu-energy-russia-oil-gas-import%2F&usg=AOvVaw2-VD7hB40CLzFAXd5tbtxS

Edited April 16, 2022 by brenthutch

[olofscience 489]

14 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Just because it conflicts with your world view doesn’t make it a lie.

What makes it a lie is your assertion that EU fracking could more than make up for the Russian imports.

2 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

The EU got 40% of its natural gas from Russia in 2021.  Try doing the math again.

But it still doesn't change the equation that 60% of its gas needs to be imported.

 

You're just trying to distract now from your massive mistake - sure other countries can send gas to Europe, and especially now they should. But there aren't enough LNG terminals to handle the entire supply, and OPEC (Qatar in particular) is already selling their gas to other countries and can't just increase capacity instantly. But that wasn't what you said. What you said, and I quote:

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

They have more than enough to replace imported Russian gas

They don't. US/Canada/OPEC could step in, but that's not "having more than enough" locally.

[JoeWeber 2,836]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

Re:  we need to beat those bastards

From the news, Biden's latest support package includes helicopters.  I am only hoping that fighter jets will be next.

It is hard for me to accept Biden's argument that supplying fighter jets would bring WW III yet still send other types of aircraft.

I'll take it as every bit helps.

Jerry Baumchen

He's boiling the Russian frog, I think. Little by little we're crossing the line. So far, so good.

[brenthutch 444]

59 minutes ago, olofscience said:

What makes it a lie is your assertion that EU fracking could more than make up for the Russian imports.

But it still doesn't change the equation that 60% of its gas needs to be imported.

 

You're just trying to distract now from your massive mistake - sure other countries can send gas to Europe, and especially now they should. But there aren't enough LNG terminals to handle the entire supply, and OPEC (Qatar in particular) is already selling their gas to other countries and can't just increase capacity instantly. But that wasn't what you said. What you said, and I quote:

They don't. US/Canada/OPEC could step in, but that's not "having more than enough" locally.

Wow, you are just flailing now.

Give this a listen 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-lesson-in-energy-masochism-europe-natural-gas-russia-vladimir-putin-11646170129

[olofscience 489]

23 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Wow, you are just flailing now.

Give this a listen 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-lesson-in-energy-masochism-europe-natural-gas-russia-vladimir-putin-11646170129

Since you didn't answer any of my points, I'll accept that as an admission that you were wrong. Thanks!

[gowlerk 2,251]

3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I am only hoping that fighter jets will be next.

Who will fly them?

[ryoder 1,590]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Who will fly them?

They have a shortage of planes, not pilots.