mdrejhon 8 #26 March 21, 2006 You all know this, but... I believe the only good reason to push or kick a person out is when they have a premaure opening at the exit that can't be stopped by other means. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altichick 1 #27 March 21, 2006 I think there's a big difference between pushing someone out before they have spotted and decided to jump and giving a 'nudge' to experienced jumpers who have already climbed out and taken grips for exit but are having a brain fart about how to exit an aircraft!! One is stupid/dangerous and would piss people off ... the other is funny Its all about context. Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #28 March 21, 2006 QuoteIf some one is completely climb out how long to you let them out there before you either push them off or pull them in? Part of spoting is knowing when to climb out. If you climb out and then hang out there waiting on the spot to get better before having anyone else climb out that either better be a really big way that needs a really long climb out, or you need to figure out how to spot and exit again. If you climb out, then hang on and wait for the spot to get better, your endangering the entire plane load of jumpers. A premature opening is bad when your on the plane. If this is happening, talk to the person that has done it when you get on the ground and explain why it shouldn't be done. Was this what happened with Matt and his Squeeze? Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #29 March 21, 2006 QuoteWhen the greenlight came on, we were still slightly downwind of the spot. I climbed halfway out but held up my hand telling her to wait. After 10 seconds or so, some hotshot freeflier pushed her out the door past me, so I exited with her. I'm not sure what is ment by "climbing halfway out".Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floats18 0 #30 March 21, 2006 QuoteI think there's a big difference between pushing someone out before they have spotted and decided to jump and giving a 'nudge' to experienced jumpers who have already climbed out and taken grips for exit but are having a brain fart about how to exit an aircraft!! One is stupid/dangerous and would piss people off ... the other is funny Its all about context. Thank you altichick! Thats what I ment when I posted the video. That is exactly why and when this video is funny! You ROCK --- and give them wings so they may fly free forever DiverDriver in Training Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #31 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhen the greenlight came on, we were still slightly downwind of the spot. I climbed halfway out but held up my hand telling her to wait. After 10 seconds or so, some hotshot freeflier pushed her out the door past me, so I exited with her. I'm not sure what is ment by "climbing halfway out". Eric It seems you are having a hard time understanding the correct spotting procedures. Maybe you should ask your S&TA, call Matt and ask him personally? Spotting should be done from inside the plane and when it clear for you to jump, then climb out all the way out and go. Different exits may require some other technique, so dont be afraid to ask your local hot shot skydiver at your DZ. Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #32 March 21, 2006 QuotePersonally for me it is usually RW groups. Personally for me it happens with the first group out (the one normally 'spotting the load' ). If a DZ knows how to stage exit order that will normally be RW. But I've been to DZs that are screwed up and let FF out first and at those DZs it's the FFer's No kidding. You guys always try to make it about the discipline. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yeyo 1 #33 March 21, 2006 If you are not a "violent" person like you said, pay someone to be violent... Thats what they deserve for not apologizing and not paying your tickets.HISPA #93 DS #419.5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #34 March 21, 2006 QuoteI'm not sure what is ment by "climbing halfway out". I'm the girl who was jumping with Matt that day on the load. We had a bad off landing together over a month back where I ended up fracturing a bone and was out of comission for a bit, so we're very cautious about the spots now-- especially me with only 100 jumps on a brand new canopy. We were first out and the winds were honking this day. The green light came on and we were still down wind, exactly where we landed off downwind before in the tight spot a month before, so we both hung out heads out the door and continued to spot for a few extra seconds. This whole time I was getting nudged over and over again by the "experienced freeflyer" behind me. After I shot them a dirty look, Matt climbed all the way out as I was still on the inside slot and still getting a push from behind. The next one was enough and I lost my grip and missed the whole count and fell out completely before Matt who was supposed to go first to take the video of the exit and all. We weren't in the door for longer than 10 seconds or so, and the aircraft speed was at a CRAWL-- trust me, nobody was getting hosed behind us. I heard Lyle Presse tell his big way later on during a dirt dive that day that if peole were yelling at them to get out (since they were first out) to just sit and wait for a good spot since the light was coming on a little down wind that day and the first people out were getting hosed. The freefly guys in the middle/end of the line up were getting itchy (on other loads besides mine too since Lyle was saying something as well) for no reason except to rush; they're spot was going to be good even if the first outs waited a few seconds because of the high winds and early light. Either way-- in some situations I guess its funny, but these guys weren't trying to be funny. They were really trying to get us out. If it was one of my good friends that did it and looked at me and smiled I would have smiled back and gave him the finger or something, but I really didn't even know these guys. I'm a university student and don't get to jump that often, and when one of the few I get is all screwed up because somebody is a d*ck in the door, it felt like a wasted skydive since it was screwed up in the begining. Thats a meeker point compared to the safety issues surrounding the whole thing. ::sigh:: I dunno..... it's done and over with and hopefully nobody else gets their skydive screwed up by anybody behind them becuase they're impatient skygods. sorry for the long post-- I was trying to keep my nose out of it but I felt compelled to put my two sense in today.Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #35 March 21, 2006 > This whole time I was getting nudged over and over again >by the "experienced freeflyer" behind me. Lately when this happens I get back in, take my helmet off and ask him what's going on (just in case he saw an airplane below us or something.) If he says "JUST GO!" then I put my helmet back on, check my handles and climb back out. This has two benefits: 1) If there IS really a problem I will learn about it 2) If there's no problem, then they have an incentive not to push me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #36 March 21, 2006 Yes, it is funny. It is also wrong. Things can be wrong and still be funny. It is amazing how the outcome and attitude makes all the difference. I have been pushed out, and pushed people out. It was wrong, but still funny. But the major point is it was wrong."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #37 March 21, 2006 Well for me it is usually about discipline. When we have freefliers out first, no RW groups, they know how to spot and get the fuck out. Teams usually spend to long in the door and do not account for this when starting the clinb out. A lot of the RW people at my DZ are old farts (no offense) and do not have the overall canopy skill some of the new freefliers have and NEED a perfect spot where better pilots can get back from a larger variety of spots. It's been a long time since I have seen a freefly group take 10+ seconds once ready to get out before even starting the count. I see RW do it all the time. We have more go arounds with RW groups than we do with more groups of freefliers. I dont mean to be mean, but sometimes it is about discipline. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #38 March 21, 2006 we weren't doing RW-- half of the skydive was a sitfly and I'm usually a freeflyer myself. I've never taken more than a few seconds in the door. The people at the DZ know that and know I wouldn't be waiting for no good reason. On top of jumping and knowing spots, I'm also a pilot. It was my boyfriends first time out with stills and thats why we exited on our bellys so he could feel out the new helmet set up and all. I agree that RW people do take longer in the door to set up which can be frustrating. But when they are waiting because the spot is bad, then that is a different story and there's nothing wrong with doing that.Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #39 March 21, 2006 I have NO sense of humor for this childish sort of behavior ... nor am I violent, but I do have a more subtle sort of revenge. If I ever saw that childish behavior, I would simply ask manifest to never put me on the same airplane as the "three guilty bastards." When the senior instructor refuses to be on the same load as the "three guilty bastards," manifest backs up BIG TIME! Few manifestors have the patience to play that game on a busy day, ergo the "three guilty bastards" can sit on the ground until one of them 'fesses up. There is another even more subtle sort of revenge played by truly cruel manifestors. They simply dock all three accounts one jump ticket each, then wait for his buddies to rat him out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #40 March 21, 2006 I can tell the difference between someone spotting and dicking around. I usually know the spot for he day and know when waiting is simply an annoyance and when it is gonna screw us. I have been yelled at while spotting and I simply got out of the way. When the TM looked out the door he said "ohh shit" and backed up into his place. If someone wants to get out, they are more than welcome. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #41 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut I've been to DZs that are screwed up and let FF out first and at those DZs it's the FFer's. surely ff goin first is better? they fall faster, there for getting out the way, and as they are vertical they present more to the relative wind so are more affected by it, and as u run into wind then that means they are getting pushed further away? ive never heard a good argument for ff going after rw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #42 March 21, 2006 Quotesurely ff goin first is better? they fall faster, there for getting out the way, and as they are vertical they present more to the relative wind so are more affected by it, and as u run into wind then that means they are getting pushed further away? ive never heard a good argument for ff going after rw No offense, then you have not been around very long. Search Kallends exit program. It shows why its best to have flat before freefly. Quotethey fall faster, there for getting out the way, and as they are vertical they present more to the relative wind so are more affected by it, and as u run into wind then that means they are getting pushed further away? Nope, since FFers fall faster they are not exposed to the drift as long and therefore drift *less*. Yes, they fall faster, but in many cases the flat group will drift over top of them."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #43 March 21, 2006 QuoteWhen we have freefliers out first, no RW groups, they know how to spot and get the fuck out. Teams usually spend to long in the door and do not account for this when starting the clinb out I have had the opposite experience. Freefliers that demand a perfect spot and wait in the door to get it. QuoteA lot of the RW people at my DZ are old farts (no offense) and do not have the overall canopy skill some of the new freefliers have and NEED a perfect spot where better pilots can get back from a larger variety of spots. That is the WORST logic ever. Some of the "young" jumpers don't have enough skill to make it back from a long spot. And some of the "old" farts have Pro ratings. At a DZ some freefliers tried to "explain" that they should go first since they had more agressive canopies......So we asked them what they were flying. Only one guy in their group had a smaller canopy than the *largest* in our group (a 107) two folks had 79 Velos in my group. QuoteIt's been a long time since I have seen a freefly group take 10+ seconds once ready to get out before even starting the count. I see RW do it all the time. We have more go arounds with RW groups than we do with more groups of freefliers. I dont mean to be mean, but sometimes it is about discipline. I have seen freefly groups take more time in the door than any team I have been on. Anyway, if the RW group takes more time, then it should go first. That way they can start the climbout early enough to exit at the front of the window. If they don't then it is more the case of a single person not knowing how to spot...a VERY common problem with ALL skydivers no matter what type of flying they love. Its not about discipline, its about nobody knowing how to really spot anymore....they just look for a green light."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #44 March 21, 2006 You know what is HILARIOUS? Taking an exacto knife to his container. That shit will make you die laughing! (pun intended?) HAHAHAHAH! Seriously though, I probably would have at least kicked him in the nuts for pushing. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pkasdorf 0 #45 March 21, 2006 QuoteWhat do you think? Definitely not funny!!! HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #46 March 21, 2006 Quote Its not about discipline, its about nobody knowing how to really spot anymore....they just look for a green light. Or they're too concered about being shouted at for taking too long! -- I screwed up on Saturday. The group ahead of me doing the spotting (3 way FF) said something like 'we're right over the top' and it sounded like they were setting up for dead center. As you mentioned, not a crime exclusive to RWers. But in this case it would have been fine - it was them, me, and a couple tandems. But I didn't want to dally, so I watched them fall away, checked that there was a runway below and no clouds underneath, and went out at about +8 secs. Probably should have actually LOOKED at the runway, not just seen it. Was out way early, on wrong end of airport, and got myself a nice off landing and walk back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johnny1488 1 #47 March 21, 2006 That's why I am sure things are different at different DZs. Come to my DZ and you will see what I see. If I go to yours I will probably see what you see. QuoteThat way they can start the climbout early enough to exit at the front of the window. If I could get them to do that I would but the groups I have dealt with don't want to hear it QuoteThat is the WORST logic ever. It's not logic. It's my observtion of the jumpers in question. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #48 March 21, 2006 QuoteThat's why I am sure things are different at different DZs. Come to my DZ and you will see what I see. If I go to yours I will probably see what you see. so then why are you making generalizations about RW versus FF? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 1 #49 March 21, 2006 QuoteYes, it is funny. I agree with Ron.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,995 #50 March 21, 2006 >It's been a long time since I have seen a freefly group take 10+ > seconds once ready to get out before even starting the count. I see > RW do it all the time. Interesting. We have the opposite issue. The 4 way people have dirt dived their exits, and climb out, give the count and go. The freeflyers are still trying to decide exactly how to exit, since they put the dive together four minutes before from two 2-way headdowners and a solo sitflyer. Doesn't bother me any, since the only time the freeflyers hold me up is when I'm wingsuiting - and I know I'm going to make it back when I have a wingsuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Ron 10 #42 March 21, 2006 Quotesurely ff goin first is better? they fall faster, there for getting out the way, and as they are vertical they present more to the relative wind so are more affected by it, and as u run into wind then that means they are getting pushed further away? ive never heard a good argument for ff going after rw No offense, then you have not been around very long. Search Kallends exit program. It shows why its best to have flat before freefly. Quotethey fall faster, there for getting out the way, and as they are vertical they present more to the relative wind so are more affected by it, and as u run into wind then that means they are getting pushed further away? Nope, since FFers fall faster they are not exposed to the drift as long and therefore drift *less*. Yes, they fall faster, but in many cases the flat group will drift over top of them."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #43 March 21, 2006 QuoteWhen we have freefliers out first, no RW groups, they know how to spot and get the fuck out. Teams usually spend to long in the door and do not account for this when starting the clinb out I have had the opposite experience. Freefliers that demand a perfect spot and wait in the door to get it. QuoteA lot of the RW people at my DZ are old farts (no offense) and do not have the overall canopy skill some of the new freefliers have and NEED a perfect spot where better pilots can get back from a larger variety of spots. That is the WORST logic ever. Some of the "young" jumpers don't have enough skill to make it back from a long spot. And some of the "old" farts have Pro ratings. At a DZ some freefliers tried to "explain" that they should go first since they had more agressive canopies......So we asked them what they were flying. Only one guy in their group had a smaller canopy than the *largest* in our group (a 107) two folks had 79 Velos in my group. QuoteIt's been a long time since I have seen a freefly group take 10+ seconds once ready to get out before even starting the count. I see RW do it all the time. We have more go arounds with RW groups than we do with more groups of freefliers. I dont mean to be mean, but sometimes it is about discipline. I have seen freefly groups take more time in the door than any team I have been on. Anyway, if the RW group takes more time, then it should go first. That way they can start the climbout early enough to exit at the front of the window. If they don't then it is more the case of a single person not knowing how to spot...a VERY common problem with ALL skydivers no matter what type of flying they love. Its not about discipline, its about nobody knowing how to really spot anymore....they just look for a green light."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #44 March 21, 2006 You know what is HILARIOUS? Taking an exacto knife to his container. That shit will make you die laughing! (pun intended?) HAHAHAHAH! Seriously though, I probably would have at least kicked him in the nuts for pushing. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pkasdorf 0 #45 March 21, 2006 QuoteWhat do you think? Definitely not funny!!! HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #46 March 21, 2006 Quote Its not about discipline, its about nobody knowing how to really spot anymore....they just look for a green light. Or they're too concered about being shouted at for taking too long! -- I screwed up on Saturday. The group ahead of me doing the spotting (3 way FF) said something like 'we're right over the top' and it sounded like they were setting up for dead center. As you mentioned, not a crime exclusive to RWers. But in this case it would have been fine - it was them, me, and a couple tandems. But I didn't want to dally, so I watched them fall away, checked that there was a runway below and no clouds underneath, and went out at about +8 secs. Probably should have actually LOOKED at the runway, not just seen it. Was out way early, on wrong end of airport, and got myself a nice off landing and walk back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #47 March 21, 2006 That's why I am sure things are different at different DZs. Come to my DZ and you will see what I see. If I go to yours I will probably see what you see. QuoteThat way they can start the climbout early enough to exit at the front of the window. If I could get them to do that I would but the groups I have dealt with don't want to hear it QuoteThat is the WORST logic ever. It's not logic. It's my observtion of the jumpers in question. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #48 March 21, 2006 QuoteThat's why I am sure things are different at different DZs. Come to my DZ and you will see what I see. If I go to yours I will probably see what you see. so then why are you making generalizations about RW versus FF? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #49 March 21, 2006 QuoteYes, it is funny. I agree with Ron.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #50 March 21, 2006 >It's been a long time since I have seen a freefly group take 10+ > seconds once ready to get out before even starting the count. I see > RW do it all the time. Interesting. We have the opposite issue. The 4 way people have dirt dived their exits, and climb out, give the count and go. The freeflyers are still trying to decide exactly how to exit, since they put the dive together four minutes before from two 2-way headdowners and a solo sitflyer. Doesn't bother me any, since the only time the freeflyers hold me up is when I'm wingsuiting - and I know I'm going to make it back when I have a wingsuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
