Abortion Commentary

[jakee 1,556]

11 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Try what again? Convince you of anything? With truth and common sense? 

When have you ever tried?

10 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

But, if you want to kill a baby for reasons of convenience, you can always go to a state which allows it like Kalifornia. 

See like that. That’s not true. How could you go to Kalifornia if you don’t have your own transport and the law says anyone who helps you will go to prison?

How could you go to Kalifornia if you’re already too sick to survive outside the hospital but not yet sick enough to categorically need an immediate abortion to avoid death?

See, when you have to make things up to prove your point, it generally means common sense isn’t on your side.

10 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

I think there is probably overreach in some places because they’re all trying to figure it out. 

What is it you think they’re trying to ‘figure out’?

Edited October 11, 2024 by jakee

[nigel99 558]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

Conservatives disagree.  You can go to jail for aborting the non-viable fetus.  Doesn't matter what happens to mother or other fetus.

Which is why maternal and infant deaths are increasing in conservative states.

Now I see where Trumps argument about ‘executing babies after birth’ comes from. Considering he can’t tell the difference between insane asylum and asylum seekers I’m not surprised. 

Kind of ironic someone arguing that abortion is wrong, but in trumpian terms executing the baby is fine. 

[JoeWeber 2,807]

8 hours ago, tkhayes said:

I don’t know any religion that allows its membership to openly lie bare-faced to the public rather than just say what they actually believe.

 

Muslims call it taqiyya, the freedom to lie in defense of Islam. Of course the professors and Imams will offer a billion other interpretations. 

[jakee 1,556]

23 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Muslims call it taqiyya, the freedom to lie in defense of Islam. 

And if the others don’t say so explicitly I’m sure they’ve got a decent ‘wink and a nudge’ arrangement.

[wmw999 2,514]

12 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

I think there is probably overreach in some places because they’re all trying to figure it out.

Agreed. The problem is that women are being harmed during this overreach. As a human being (of the female variety), I find that problematic.

Going with a stricter interpretation, one has to wonder just how strict. Given that in the Bible it says that God knows us from before conception, does that mean that birth control is taboo, or does that mean that if the woman or man says "I have a headache tonight" they've just messed with that?

I'm definitely pro-choice. I'm also pro support for single parents, so that ones who choose to keep and raise their babies don't suffer too much. Yeah, it's fine to say "she should have kept her legs closed," but that's not real helpful, and it's punishing the baby, and possibly everyone that person the baby becomes in the future.

Wendy P.

[kallend 2,099]

16 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

“There’s not a single fetal or maternal condition that requires third trimester abortion. Not one. Delivery, yes. Abortion, no.” - Dr. Omar Hamada (OB/GYN Physician, MBA)

I served with Dr. Hamada in the Army.

So what?  So you are, and served with served with, a professional killer.  

 

Why should that opinion have any value?

[wmw999 2,514]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

So what?  So you are, and served with served with, a professional killer.  

 

Why should that opinion have any value?

There’s a difference between being a soldier, even SF, and being a professional killer. The defenders in the Battle of Britain were also professional killers by that definition; their primary job was to defend against the blitzkrieg, but they were certainly authorized to kill, too.

I may disagree with Jay politically and religiously, but everything Ive heard about him, and have learned from other SF soldiers, is that he’s an honorable, and very conservative, man  

Wendy P. 

[jaybird18c 24]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

So what?  So you are, and served with served with, a professional killer.  

 

Why should that opinion have any value?

And you’ve never put your life on the line to defend your country. I don’t respect that at all. However, I still think your opinion has value.

[jaybird18c 24]

3 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Agreed. The problem is that women are being harmed during this overreach. As a human being (of the female variety), I find that problematic.

Going with a stricter interpretation, one has to wonder just how strict. Given that in the Bible it says that God knows us from before conception, does that mean that birth control is taboo, or does that mean that if the woman or man says "I have a headache tonight" they've just messed with that?

I'm definitely pro-choice. I'm also pro support for single parents, so that ones who choose to keep and raise their babies don't suffer too much. Yeah, it's fine to say "she should have kept her legs closed," but that's not real helpful, and it's punishing the baby, and possibly everyone that person the baby becomes in the future.

Wendy P.

There is also the Providence of God to consider. He certainly has foreknowledge of all events and nothing happens apart from his decree, permissive or otherwise. There is nothing in the Bible which indicates physical life prior to the moment of conception. Therefore, contraception would not be unbiblical. Anything beyond that, however, would absolutely fit the biblical definition of murder. There are circumstances wherein decisions must be made by physicians to terminate pregnancies when the life of the mother is in serious question. It’s a tough moral dilemma. However, inaction would result in the death of both. There are people in here with simplistic/ignorant views on the topic who generalize and say there is no difference. They’re also the ones who will call me a murderer because of my service in defense of my country. They don’t distinguish between killing and murder. However, I say there are reasons for both. Motive and conscience are important. I think, in the fallen world in which we live, which includes disease, suffering, death, etc., God offers grace to his people.

[kallend 2,099]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

There’s a difference between being a soldier, even SF, and being a professional killer.

Soldiers are trained to kill, many of them do, and they are professionals. By definition that makes them professional killers.  Words have meaning.  That they are doing a fine job for their country makes no difference, that is what they are.

I not not respect those who claim to be pro life but are, indeed trained, professional killers.

[kallend 2,099]

36 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

There is also the Providence of God to consider. 

The opinion of mythical beings is irrelevant.

[jaybird18c 24]

6 minutes ago, kallend said:

The opinion of mythical beings is irrelevant.

Why don’t you just admit to being a coward who was either too selfish or scared to stand with others who actually did in your place to protect, in large part, your right to express your opinion. I would respect that more.

Edited October 11, 2024 by jaybird18c

[SkyDekker 1,465]

4 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Why don’t you just admit to being a coward who was either too selfish or scared to stand with others who actually did in your place to protect, in large part, your right to express your opinion. I would respect that more.

Sometimes the brain is needed more than the brawn. Lots of the tools you used to perform your trade were designed and built by people who never "served."

The idea one can only serve their country by taking up arms is ignorant.

[billvon 3,058]

14 minutes ago, kallend said:

Soldiers are trained to kill, many of them do, and they are professionals. By definition that makes them professional killers.

Literally true.

A long time ago, part of my job at a power supply company was setting out ant baits and rat traps.  So I was a professional killer too!  Fear my wrath!

[JoeWeber 2,807]

7 minutes ago, billvon said:

part of my job at a power supply company was setting out ant baits and rat traps.

For those of us not in the know, just which school year was that taught at MIT?

[jaybird18c 24]

19 minutes ago, kallend said:

Soldiers are trained to kill, many of them do, and they are professionals. By definition that makes them professional killers.

There is a big difference between a uniformed soldier and a mercenary. I have never done contract work for this reason. A soldier represents his country. Of course he is paid a salary. He has to live like everyone else. It’s not much. I guarantee you. A mercenary, on the other hand, makes the decision to fight alone. He represents himself even if he fights with others. His primary motivation is money. I know that you don’t buy into the biblical argument. However, one reason is justified. The other, in my opinion, is not.

[jaybird18c 24]

16 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Sometimes the brain is needed more than the brawn. Lots of the tools you used to perform your trade were designed and built by people who never "served."

The idea one can only serve their country by taking up arms is ignorant.

I’m just curious. Have you ever served your country, either enlisted or commissioned, in any capacity?

[GeorgiaDon 379]

15 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Why don’t you just admit to being a coward who was either too selfish or scared to stand with others who actually did in your place to protect, in large part, your right to express your opinion. I would respect that more.

A long time ago I read about a guy in England during WWII who was branded a coward and ostracized by the townspeople where he lived because he wasn't obviously in the military (didn't wear a uniform/wasn't deployed).  It turned out he was a scientist involved in developing radar.  Hard to argue that developing radar wasn't a useful contribution to the war effort.  Also hard to work on developing radar (or any new technology) while at the same time fighting on the front lines.

Perhaps you can explain to the rest of us why nothing any of us could possibly be doing, no matter how essential, is as important as military service?  

[JoeWeber 2,807]

1 hour ago, jaybird18c said:

There is also the Providence of God to consider. He certainly has foreknowledge of all events and nothing happens apart from his decree, permissive or otherwise. There is nothing in the Bible which indicates physical life prior to the moment of conception. Therefore, contraception would not be unbiblical. Anything beyond that, however, would absolutely fit the biblical definition of murder. There are circumstances wherein decisions must be made by physicians to terminate pregnancies when the life of the mother is in serious question. It’s a tough moral dilemma. However, inaction would result in the death of both. There are people in here with simplistic/ignorant views on the topic who generalize and say there is no difference. They’re also the ones who will call me a murderer because of my service in defense of my country. They don’t distinguish between killing and murder. However, I say there are reasons for both. Motive and conscience are important. I think, in the fallen world in which we live, which includes disease, suffering, death, etc., God offers grace to his people.

You can't have too many messianic extremists wearing your countries uniform if world peace is your hope, that's for sure. 

[billvon 3,058]

15 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

For those of us not in the know, just which school year was that taught at MIT?

It was an elective.  I took it right after Form and Color.

[jaybird18c 24]

4 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

A long time ago I read about a guy in England during WWII who was branded a coward and ostracized by the townspeople where he lived because he wasn't obviously in the military (didn't wear a uniform/wasn't deployed).  It turned out he was a scientist involved in developing radar.  Hard to argue that developing radar wasn't a useful contribution to the war effort.  Also hard to work on developing radar (or any new technology) while at the same time fighting on the front lines.

Perhaps you can explain to the rest of us why nothing any of us could possibly be doing, no matter how essential, is as important as military service?  

Depends on your motive. The WWII guy you mentioned was serving a cause bigger than himself. I agree, people have different talents. Some aren’t physically capable, etc. What they do it still respectable. I’m just curious about some of the motives of the physically capable critics in here. 

[jaybird18c 24]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

You can't have too many messianic extremists wearing your countries uniform if world peace is your hope, that's for sure. 

Or extremist atheists. That’s history!

[billvon 3,058]

34 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Why don’t you just admit to being a coward 

I'd be very careful calling people "cowards" simply because they did not do what you did.  Because you will find people out there with even more justification to call you a coward, if you take that route.

[jaybird18c 24]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

I'd be very careful calling people "cowards" simply because they did not do what you did.  Because you will find people out there with even more justification to call you a coward, if you take that route.

I didn’t call you a coward. I just said that if you admitted to it, I would respect you more for the honesty seeing as how you obviously would never take a stand with others to defend your country.

Edited October 11, 2024 by jaybird18c

[billvon 3,058]

3 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

I didn’t call you a coward. I just said that if you admitted to it

1) You weren't talking to me.

2) Don't play word games.  "I like cats" "anyone who posts here and likes cats is an idiot" is equivalent to "you're an idiot."  This example is in the rules at the top of the page.