Mental Health, Guns, Mental Health

[jakee 1,489]

8 hours ago, porpoishead said:

jack, I cannot answer to “billy lived with whatever was in his head for a very long time” I have no idea how any of that works im of sound mind and body and it doesn’t make any sense to me.

if you want to make that assumption that’s on you.

Assumption? Whenever it suits you you're very keen to say that Billy has always been a certain way, that way is nothing like you and (partly) that's why you'd never be at risk of doing what he did.

Then you want to say that it's simply a complete coincidence that he murdered his family shortly after gaining ready access to the firearms he used. 

Even though you've already stated that you do believe having guns changes the way people think and behave.

 

It doesnt make a huge amount of sense to me.

[kallend 2,027]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

 

 

It doesnt make a huge amount of sense to me.

When every scrap of data says "X", trying to rationalize "not X" is never going to make much sense.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

20 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Okay, if you want to get "picky" there are no magazine size limits on .22 caliber rifles. I guess that Canadian police do not fear being killed by .22s. Please don't tell them about Bobby Kennedy's assassination.

No 5 shot magazine restrictions on rifles or shotguns with actions other than semi-automatic. And then there are the exceptions, like the 8 cartridge magazine for the M1 Garand is legal.

[Phil1111 1,149]

On 5/27/2022 at 5:58 PM, riggerrob said:

Okay, if you want to get "picky" there are no magazine size limits on .22 caliber rifles. I guess that Canadian police do not fear being killed by .22s. Please don't tell them about Bobby Kennedy's assassination.

The RCMP have changed the laws in Canada. "The RCMP has taken aim at the Ruger high capacity 10/22 magazine which holds 25 cartridges.  Despite the fact that these magazines have been legal in Canada for decades, the RCMP firearms lab has suddenly concluded that because they will fit Ruger Charger pistols or clones, and since pistols are limited to magazines of ten rounds, the magazine should now be classified as prohibited. This was confirmed in a memo dated July 21, 2016 from the RCMP Criminal Division Branch."

"The Ruger BX- 25 magazine, chambered for 22 LR rim-fire calibre, is designed and manufactured for use in the:

• Ruger SR22 rifle
• 10/22 family of rifles/carbines
• 22 Charger handgun

This magazine is a prohibited device unless modified so its capacity is 10 cartridges or less."

So to be safer: Ever wondered why the RCMP says that 10/22's are limited to 10 rounds? Look no further than the 22 Charger. And heres a mag for it. Pinned to 10

Tube mags for .22 and other guns don't need to be pinned. This is why many Canadian gun owners have hardened their positions. On gun restrictions and Liberal gun bans.

Yeah i know the police are not supposed to write laws.Thats another issue.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Phil1111

[JoeWeber 2,720]

6 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

The RCMP have changed the laws in Canada. "The RCMP has taken aim at the Ruger high capacity 10/22 magazine which holds 25 cartridges.  Despite the fact that these magazines have been legal in Canada for decades, the RCMP firearms lab has suddenly concluded that because they will fit Ruger Charger pistols or clones, and since pistols are limited to magazines of ten rounds, the magazine should now be classified as prohibited. This was confirmed in a memo dated July 21, 2016 from the RCMP Criminal Division Branch."

"The Ruger BX- 25 magazine, chambered for 22 LR rim-fire calibre, is designed and manufactured for use in the:

• Ruger SR22 rifle
• 10/22 family of rifles/carbines
• 22 Charger handgun

This magazine is a prohibited device unless modified so its capacity is 10 cartridges or less."

So to be safer: Ever wondered why the RCMP says that 10/22's are limited to 10 rounds? Look no further than the 22 Charger. And heres a mag for it. Pinned to 10

Tube mags for .22 and other guns don't need to be pinned. This is why many Canadian gun owners have hardened their positions. On gun restrictions and Liberal gun bans.

Yeah i know the police are not supposed to write laws.Thats another issue.

Just stop your crying
It's a sign of the times
Welcome to the final show
Hope you're wearing your best clothes
You can't bribe the door on your way to the sky
You look pretty good down here
But you ain't really good

If we never learn, we been here before
Why are we always stuck and running from
The bullets?
The bullets
We never learn, we been here before
Why are we always stuck and running from
The bullets?
The bullets

 

[rifleman 70]

I asked this question in another thread but it seems appropriate to repeat it here:

How much of the current trend towards gun violence, particularly school shootings, can be attributed to the lack of universal healthcare (and ready access to free mental health services) in the US?

Here in the UK, we have a single payer, universal healthcare service where a person can self-refer for mental health support if required. We have organisations that actively campaign to destigmatise mental health issues and raise awareness of support networks and also have a charity supported scheme to train people in Mental Health First Aid.

From the site of one provider:
"They are trained to spot the early signs of mental ill-health in others. They are taught to confidently signpost someone to appropriate support, both internal and external, and they are equipped to deal with emergencies too - such as psychosis, thoughts of suicide, or attempted suicide."

Many workplaces now have Mental Health First Aiders alongside regular First Aiders, providing support to colleagues who are feeling the stress caused by COVID, the cost of living crisis and workplace related problems.

[wmw999 2,447]

53 minutes ago, rifleman said:

How much of the current trend towards gun violence, particularly school shootings, can be attributed to the lack of universal healthcare (and ready access to free mental health services) in the US?

Probably some of it. But that's not going to happen, either, in the current climate. Well, maybe if it's the only way to keep the guns.

Wendy P.

[Phil1111 1,149]

2 hours ago, rifleman said:

I asked this question in another thread but it seems appropriate to repeat it here....:

How much of the current trend towards gun violence, particularly school shootings, can be attributed to the lack of universal healthcare (and ready access to free mental health services) in the US?

Many workplaces now have Mental Health First Aiders alongside regular First Aiders, providing support to colleagues who are feeling the stress caused by COVID, the cost of living crisis and workplace related problems.

From: Mental illness and reduction of gun violence and suicide: bringing epidemiologic research to policy  (2015) "Media accounts of mass shootings by disturbed individuals galvanize public attention and reinforce popular belief that mental illness often results in violence. Epidemiologic studies show that the large majority of people with serious mental illnesses are never violent. However, mental illness is strongly associated with increased risk of suicide, which accounts for over half of US firearms–related fatalities."

Makes common sense. Otherwise there would be knife attracts, as an example. In countries where guns are few, i.e. Japan.

The quote I had with regards to road rage killings in Dallas. Is another good example. 2021, 45 people wounded, 11 killed. Just put a gun in every glovebox of every hothead's vehicle. Bingo, one family mourns a death. The other family visits their white teenager in prison. For the rest of their lives.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Phil1111

[JoeWeber 2,720]

3 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Probably some of it. But that's not going to happen, either, in the current climate. Well, maybe if it's the only way to keep the guns.

Wendy P.

Schools are mental stress factories like everywhere else kids congregate to learn about stuff but mostly about life. Stress+immaturity+guns=mass murder. Theres a reason we don't have 250 bingo parlor shootings a year. 

[kallend 2,027]

58 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Schools are mental stress factories like everywhere else kids congregate to learn about stuff but mostly about life. Stress+immaturity+guns=mass murder. Theres a reason we don't have 250 bingo parlor shootings a year. 

Article in today's Chicago Tribune about how school dress codes are stressing out kids.  Apparently if I can't "express myself" through choice of clothes and headgear it impairs learning and causes me to act out.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

15 minutes ago, kallend said:

Article in today's Chicago Tribune about how school dress codes are stressing out kids.  Apparently if I can't "express myself" through choice of clothes and headgear it impairs learning and causes me to act out.

Somehow school dress codes and uniforms don't interfere with learning elsewhere. It's a guess but I'd guess where all kids are dressed the same at school there is less social bullying.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi folks,

From the only large newspaper in Oregon:  And if our elected officials cannot muster that courage, it’s up to us to change leaders and change laws.

Editorial: Change leaders, change laws for meaningful gun reform - oregonlive.com

Jerry Baumchen

[riggerrob 643]

May I make a radical suggestion?

Tie the part of the Second Amendment about "right to bear arms" to the part about "well regulated militia" and require every new gun owner to enroll in a gov't recognized gun club and complete basic fire arms training at that gun club. To meet the "militia" requirement, insist that each gun club include a few active duty or retired military or police officers. Most gun clubs already contain large numbers of retired military.

 

That is similar to the current standard in most other countries (e.g. Canada).

[kallend 2,027]

7 hours ago, riggerrob said:

May I make a radical suggestion?

Tie the part of the Second Amendment about "right to bear arms" to the part about "well regulated militia" and require every new gun owner to enroll in a gov't recognized gun club and complete basic fire arms training at that gun club. To meet the "militia" requirement, insist that each gun club include a few active duty or retired military or police officers. Most gun clubs already contain large numbers of retired military.

 

That is similar to the current standard in most other countries (e.g. Canada).

Add a regular training requirement.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

7 hours ago, kallend said:

Add a regular training requirement.

The problem is that our Supreme, by and through then Chief Pretzel Untwister Antonin Scalia, untied participation in militias from what is now an individual right to own a gun. Any attempt to undo that absurdity, whether by new law or court challenge, faces a long haul and dim prospects.

[gowlerk 2,192]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

 Any attempt to undo that absurdity, whether by new law or court challenge, faces a long haul and dim prospects.

It looks like there is a path mapped out. Elect Senators and Presidents willing to select and confirm judges to the SCOTUS who are committed to the change you want. The only problem is that you probably can not do that because a majority of US voters like the 2nd the way it is currently interpreted. Plus it would be a 2 to 3 decade project. 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

14 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It looks like there is a path mapped out. Elect Senators and Presidents willing to select and confirm judges to the SCOTUS who are committed to the change you want. The only problem is that you probably can not do that because a majority of US voters like the 2nd the way it is currently interpreted. Plus it would be a 2 to 3 decade project. 

Thanks for the insight. I'll get someone right on it. My own 2 to 3 decade project is simply to still be here in 2 to 3 decades.

[gowlerk 2,192]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Thanks for the insight. I'll get someone right on it. My own 2 to 3 decade project is simply to still be here in 2 to 3 decades.

I know. That's why it won't ever change. It isn't important enough for you or most anyone who wants the change to dedicate themselves to it. But the other side is quite dedicated. Progress only happens when the majority demands it.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

9 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I know. That's why it won't ever change. It isn't important enough for you or most anyone who wants the change to dedicate themselves to it. But the other side is quite dedicated. Progress only happens when the majority demands it.

Not so. I'd say that big, honking asteroid that whopped into the Yucatan was progress for humanity. No majority vote then.

Edited May 30, 2022 by JoeWeber

[gowlerk 2,192]

39 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I'd say that big, honking asteroid that whopped into the Yucatan was progress for humanity.

That led directly to the 2nd.

[riggerrob 643]

11 hours ago, kallend said:

Add a regular training requirement.

Dear Kallend,

Are you suggesting regular refresher training?

... or perhaps fire "X" number of rounds per quarter to stay current?

... as recommended by the better military and law-enforcement firearms instructors?

I always found it amusing when Canadian gun clubs annually extended an "invitation" to hunters to "sight in" their rifles at the start of deer season. Practically, it was more like an excuse to remind hunters of which end the bullets came out. Hah! Hah!

[Phil1111 1,149]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I know. That's why it won't ever change. It isn't important enough for you or most anyone who wants the change to dedicate themselves to it. But the other side is quite dedicated. Progress only happens when the majority demands it.

I think you mean when changes to congress, the USSC, the electoral college, the US constitution, etc. etc.all take place.  Polls show 78 % want changes now....Wait ...what??... now its only 52%.

Better order up more body bags in the smaller sizes.Joe and I have both concluded that Brent is right. Change, it just ain't a gonna happen.

[kallend 2,027]

21 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

The problem is that our Supreme, by and through then Chief Pretzel Untwister Antonin Scalia, untied participation in militias from what is now an individual right to own a gun. Any attempt to undo that absurdity, whether by new law or court challenge, faces a long haul and dim prospects.

There's nothing in Heller that prohibits universal background checks, prohibitions on certain types of weapons, prohibitions on restricting mentally ill or convicted criminals from owning firearms, prohibitions on carrying them in certain places.  In fact Heller actually states that all of these are OK.

It's just that the gun lobby has shouted its incorrect interpretation of Heller sufficiently loudly that people have come to believe these things.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi folks,

I guess that Oklahoma is not OK:  1 dead, 7 injured in Oklahoma festival shooting: officials - oregonlive.com

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Let's see - Do not attend elementary school - Do not attend festivals - Good grief, what is next?

[kallend 2,027]

17 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

I guess that Oklahoma is not OK:  1 dead, 7 injured in Oklahoma festival shooting: officials - oregonlive.com

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Let's see - Do not attend elementary school - Do not attend festivals - Good grief, what is next?

Don't go shopping, don't go to church. . . . . .