craigbey 0 #101 February 18, 2014 QuoteYou might want to rethink advocacy, where it starts and who it starts with Also agreed. You are right about advocacy. The ongoing efforts of yourself and others is very important. Sorry, I was referring to any action at the airport or LZ. FastRon: http://www.uspa.org/AboutUSPA/Donations/tabid/316/Default.aspx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #102 February 19, 2014 Okay.... After reviewing this thread, and talking with a few more people, some actions are really necessary! Take a few minutes of your time here on DZ.com and go to USPA.org and emaill Board members. Be nice! Invite them to read the thread, invite USPA to help in this issue as an organization whose charter is "the promotion of safe skydiving," and invite them to evaluate this as an airport access issue. If cities/counties/boards can deny use permits for land for skydiving, then they trump the FAA stating that only the FAA governs aeronautical activities. Once word gets out, every Part 16 complaint will switch to a zoning issue, airport boards will just ask the city/county to require a special use permit for skydiving businesses, and those will simply be denied. The Federal DOT has ruled that a "head tax" for skydiving is illegal for states, counties, etc to impose, as only the Feds have the authority to regulate and tax skydiving. USPA needs to be shown that these issues are not unrelated and we need to fight this early before it gets out of hand. Call, write, email, whatever. Let the Board know that this should be addressed at the upcoming meeting, and action taken. (As a former BOD member, be nice! It was hard to read things where I was being called names or put down for being on the BOD, I just tended to stop reading. Be brief, be informative, be inviting.) Thanks, topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #103 February 19, 2014 OK Top, I just e-mailed USPA Governmental Affairs Office politely asking them to engage this issue if they have not already done so. Along with the request was a modest contribution (to be followed by more modest contributions) to the AAD Fund. I humbly encourage all here to contribute what you can. As it has been said so many times before, "Money talks and bullshit walks!" If we are all agreed that this action has wider national implications, then it is time to make the stand now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastRon 0 #104 February 20, 2014 craigbeyQuoteYou might want to rethink advocacy, where it starts and who it starts with Also agreed. You are right about advocacy. The ongoing efforts of yourself and others is very important. Sorry, I was referring to any action at the airport or LZ. FastRon: http://www.uspa.org/AboutUSPA/Donations/tabid/316/Default.aspx Thanks Craig- I sent money to the AAD fund early this a.m., and am sending a matching amount to the DZO. I also e-mailed them why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #105 February 20, 2014 I have received a few emails and calls from BOD members saying a couple of things. First, they are aware of the situation and have been taking action on it. Second, there is more to this situation than is present on this thread. Understandably, they cannot share details with me due to confidentiality. I was told this is on the agenda for the upcoming BOD meeting in Vegas in a couple of committees. Hopefully, we can see some more action on USPA's part to help out. But keep emailing! it's good for them to know how many members care! topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #106 February 20, 2014 Do you really think that the USPA isn't on this case? Land use away from an obligated airport CAN be regulated/permitted/zoned to deny skydiving because the city, state, county CAN regulate the ground activities. Just because the FAA regulates aviation, that doesn't mean you can put a heliport, airport or DZ just anywhere you would like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #107 February 20, 2014 grimmieDo you really think that the USPA isn't on this case? Land use away from an obligated airport CAN be regulated/permitted/zoned to deny skydiving because the city, state, county CAN regulate the ground activities. Just because the FAA regulates aviation, that doesn't mean you can put a heliport, airport or DZ just anywhere you would like. All the above do require use permits. The also require changes to the land itself. A landing area does not if it is already an open field. Cattle and crops can continue to be raised there. Once a skydiver is on the ground, he/she is a pedestrian. Are you saying the county can limit the pedestrian use of your land? Especially when we are talking small group numbers here, not concert numbers. And the county has created this mess by denying the DZ use of land on the airport. It's gonna look bad for them when the part 16 comes in with, " We tried to accommodate the county request that we not use the airport property, but then they wouldn't let us use private property either!" topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #108 February 20, 2014 topdocker***Do you really think that the USPA isn't on this case? Land use away from an obligated airport CAN be regulated/permitted/zoned to deny skydiving because the city, state, county CAN regulate the ground activities. Just because the FAA regulates aviation, that doesn't mean you can put a heliport, airport or DZ just anywhere you would like. All the above do require use permits. The also require changes to the land itself. A landing area does not if it is already an open field. Cattle and crops can continue to be raised there. Once a skydiver is on the ground, he/she is a pedestrian. Are you saying the county can limit the pedestrian use of your land? Especially when we are talking small group numbers here, not concert numbers. And the county has created this mess by denying the DZ use of land on the airport. It's gonna look bad for them when the part 16 comes in with, " We tried to accommodate the county request that we not use the airport property, but then they wouldn't let us use private property either!" top Skydivers landing on the property zoned for agriculture turn the property into B-1 or B-2, commercial. It is a continuation of the service provided by the DZO. They are then provided with a ride back to the airport by the DZO. They are not pedestrians they are customers. As for “how it makes them look” I doubt that will be an issue. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #109 February 21, 2014 Sometimes it's not just as in Boulder. Here is a quote from my own part 13 case, where the city tried to pull out the zoning card... I need a special use permit on a federal funded airport to conduct parachute operations, but now we are going to change the zoning to no longer allow. Quote Currently the Airport is zoned GPI (General Public and Institutional). The current zoning allows public institutions and uses but may not allow future industrial or commercial development at the Airport. The GPI district allows recreational facilities uses but would only allow parachuting activities through approval of a special use permit. The City is seeking to have the property rezoned to IG (Industrial General) which would allow better usage of the property for commercial and industrial purposes. However, parachuting is a recreational facilities use that is not permitted in an IG district.. The rezoning process will conclude in August. The City would consider a proposal that would establish a business at the airport, lease property, construct a facility and use the Airport for take off and landing of aircraft. The City’s airport manager will not approve skydiving/ parachuting to land on the airport property. What is kind of funny is in my case they claim it's a recreational use, and in Boulder's case they are claiming it's not a recreational use....you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #110 March 3, 2014 http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/mar/02/oceanside-airport-north-county-letters/ We all need more Stuart Cannes next to our DZ's. I haven't met him, but I want to buy him a beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #111 March 3, 2014 Sounds like you need to make it a point to go find him and not only buy the guy lunch and a cold beer, but hell give him ride in the plane a free jump if wants one, and end of the day extend that hand and tell him stop by anytime and visit.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #112 June 22, 2014 http://www.timescall.com/longmont-local-news/ci_26003605/quiet-skies-lawsuit-against-skydiving-is-set-trial 'Quiet Skies' lawsuit against skydiving is set for trial Posted: 06/20/2014 08:36:33 PM MDT | Updated: a day ago A lawsuit claiming Mile Hi Skydiving is making too much noise in its flights has been set for trial April 13. The Longmont-based group Citizens for Quiet Skies filed the suit in October after two years of disputes with the company. Mile Hi has operated out of Longmont’s Vance Brand Municipal Airport since 1995 and has flown its most recognized plane, a purple and white De Havilland Twin Otter, since 1999; noise complaints against Mile Hi began to increase in 2009. Quiet Skies claims the noise affects thousands of Boulder County residents, particularly on weekends. Supporters of Mile Hi have disputed the amount of noise and its effects, while city officials have said there’s little they can do to change things without running afoul of the Federal Aviation Adiministration. The case is in Boulder County District Court. The trial has been scheduled for five days, to be heard by Judge Judith LaBuda.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katzas 1 #113 June 22, 2014 AmazonI think there is something more of a hard in for skydivers than just the noise.... Which one of you guys at Mile Hi did not show up for that online dating blind date.. You nailed it. This isn't about noise--it's about power. The same kind of power that HOAs use to keep American flags off houses in their developments--or tell you what color your mailbox has to be. Her comment about showing up with 100 folks at the next meeting is the clue. I suspect that even if you could make an airplane totally silent it wouldn't matter to her--she'd find a reason to complain. It's not noise--it's skydiving.....it's "outside the box" activity that doesn't conform to her idea of what's socially and politically correct. Someone suggested "taking the gloves off". While I am generally in favor of amicable solutions--there are some folks who can't be dealt with that way. It's time to play hardball with the cqs and her--she left herself open to that by placing her name on the complaint. Demand that the Colorado AG investigate her financing, her use of "donations" and if any of the donors are taking a tax deduction for contributing and disclose who her contributors are and how much they contributed, if she is using any of those funds to contribute to politicians, her personal income, her own land use and conformity to the zoning regs of her own property, etc. If the AG won't do it then file a lawsuit against the cqs and her personally demanding full disclosure of all her activities, financing, donor lists, bank account information, accounting statements, who she or the cqs paid for what....the list goes on and on. Yes, it costs. But--if she and her PC friends win again--the dominoes begin to fall. The only thing someone with power wants is more. It won't stop with this case. So far, all the pain has been on one side--it's time to make this painful on the other side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #114 June 24, 2014 katzas***I think there is something more of a hard in for skydivers than just the noise.... Which one of you guys at Mile Hi did not show up for that online dating blind date.. You nailed it. This isn't about noise--it's about power. The same kind of power that HOAs use to keep American flags off houses in their developments--or tell you what color your mailbox has to be. Her comment about showing up with 100 folks at the next meeting is the clue. I suspect that even if you could make an airplane totally silent it wouldn't matter to her--she'd find a reason to complain. It's not noise--it's skydiving.....it's "outside the box" activity that doesn't conform to her idea of what's socially and politically correct. Someone suggested "taking the gloves off". While I am generally in favor of amicable solutions--there are some folks who can't be dealt with that way. It's time to play hardball with the cqs and her--she left herself open to that by placing her name on the complaint. Demand that the Colorado AG investigate her financing, her use of "donations" and if any of the donors are taking a tax deduction for contributing and disclose who her contributors are and how much they contributed, if she is using any of those funds to contribute to politicians, her personal income, her own land use and conformity to the zoning regs of her own property, etc. If the AG won't do it then file a lawsuit against the cqs and her personally demanding full disclosure of all her activities, financing, donor lists, bank account information, accounting statements, who she or the cqs paid for what....the list goes on and on. Yes, it costs. But--if she and her PC friends win again--the dominoes begin to fall. The only thing someone with power wants is more. It won't stop with this case. So far, all the pain has been on one side--it's time to make this painful on the other side. ^ This. The only thing this type of people will respect (fear) is scorched earth.Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 848 #115 July 8, 2014 I hope Kim is ready for Karma. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #116 July 8, 2014 Hahahaha that is fucking awesome!Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #117 July 8, 2014 "Both of these aircraft are large and noisy and we can expect some calls from residents,..." yes you canYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #118 July 8, 2014 QuoteFRAPPE, the Front Range Air Pollution and Photochemistry Experiment :-DSkydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #119 July 8, 2014 normiss I hope Kim is ready for Karma. The first comment below the story even calls out Kim... Whatcha gonna do now, biiiiiiaaaaaatch!!!!"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 0 #120 July 9, 2014 Whichever one of you here works at NASA I would just like to say Thanks!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 848 #121 July 9, 2014 I really hope they are given some key GPS points. P-3's and Herc's at low level flight. I can feel the walls shaking with anticipation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #122 July 9, 2014 I hope they're readying their lawyers in anticipation of her lawsuit threats! "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #123 July 10, 2014 normiss I really hope they are given some key GPS points. P-3's and Herc's at low level flight. I can feel the walls shaking with anticipation. If they were doing this over my house i would want a detailed timetable. So I could be sure to be sitting out back with a cold beer to enjoy the flyby Ive lived in a couple of house that were on the flight line to major airports, absolutely love sitting outside watching the traffic :)Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 848 #124 July 10, 2014 We're just over a mile from a decent sized international airport (we've had Dreamliners and A-380's). I LOVE LOVE LOVE when the storm cells force the heavies directly over our house. Nothing cooler than looking into a passenger window just a few hundred feet over the house on a wingtip! Andrea laughs at me when in the middle of a conversation, I hear something different and can't stop....I go running outside like a fat kid after the ice cream truck. A few flight schools, so we see a lot of Cessna's, Cirrus, and a couple of small twins all day every day. Some sweet business jets. The ghetto buzzard flies pretty regular too. THAT one I hate. I love airports! Of course I don't have insomnia and sit outside in the dark and whisper about THAT SUPER LOUD AIRCRAFT KEEPING ME AWAKE on a video where the birds and crickets are louder than the damn aircraft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #125 July 10, 2014 Had a pretty goo laugh a couple of years ago when I was Penang, Malaysia. Hanging out at a beach bar and a bunch of fighter jets blast by at low level over the water. Half hour later it happens again. The other tourist at the bar start complaining about how noisy and disruptive it is, the locals say sorry but the military are training all week and they run laps around the island every afternoon. Cant find any decent pictures of the jets, but I can not understand why the other tourist didn't enjoy it when 5 fighters blasted over the hills at sunsetHave you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
