AFF to Static Line Progression

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"AFF to Static Line Progression"

For economy of effort we have a S/L instructor teach the first jump course and include the AFF students. He puts out the S/L students, I take the AFF students and give them the additional training for their AFF jump, we find another AFF instructor and go skydive.

One of the neatest things that I can say to the AFF students after their training is, "You are now trained to do not only an AFF jump, but a S/L jump as well. If you come down from your AFF jump and want to make another jump inexpensively, just go tell manifest and there you go."

Yesterday we had 2 people that did an AFF jump a few months ago bring friends to do AFF. One of the first two did another AFF jump, the 2 new AFF students did an AFF jump AND then a S/L jump, with the other of the first two doing a S/L jump and on the same C182 load as their friends.

Quite a combination, and more jumps than any of them expected to make when they first showed up.

The last AFF student landed, came in, got geared up for a S/L jump, met his friends who were already geared up, and made his second jump 15 minutes later.

Who knows if they will come back and what type of jumps they might make, but...

Keeping the training flexible and being able to provide less expensive alternatives for subsequent jumps has its benefits.

[Erroll 80]

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The last AFF student landed, came in, got geared up for a S/L jump, met his friends who were already geared up, and made his second jump 15 minutes later.

Interesting concept. What altitude do you give these S/L's?

[Orange1 0]

It is an interesting concept, especially for students that need more work on canopy control. And, as Erroll implies, to circumvent the often-seen AFF fear of hop'n'pops.

Would be interesting to know what course of action these students end up following to get off student status..

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I think it represents a useful degree of flexibility in the system, especially given the importance of currency under canopy, (so long as they receive full training in the S/L specific malfunctions/exits of course). I take it the S/L jumps don't count a great deal towards their overall progression however?

If during hard times a student can keep current at a cost of a couple of tens of dollars rather than a couple of hundred dollars they may well be able to stay in the sport and later graduate where they would have otherwise been unable to do so.

On a side note - when I took my S/L instructors course a question was asked by another member of the cohort about conversion from the later stages of AFF to S/L training systems. The answer given was that the student would be grounded as being mentally unstable.

[matthewcline 0]

That is the nice thing about the USPA ISP and the Various Programs some DZ's have used for years, flexability.

To a later post;
Every jump counts, as there is a skill set that can be worked on each jump.

i.e. on a SL jump why not look into using the risers and practicing the braked and not braked manuevers on the "A" license card?

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[peek 21]

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Interesting concept. What altitude do you give these S/L's?

3500. It was literally 15 minutes later. The plane has a newish engine plus planes climb quickly in the winter.

[NWFlyer 2]

Obviously, I'm not an expert on instructional methods or instruction, but as a student, I ended up doing a hybrid of static line (started with that) and AFF (did a few AFF jumps when I was struggling with exit stability on my first jumps off the dope rope). It was a very effective training method for me (though the choice to mix and match wasn't financially motivated, since I was actually choosing *more* expensive jumps).

I can see the benefit of following a defined program, but it seems to me like as long as you can teach the skills to get the A license in an appropriate order, being able to be flexible about instructional methods is a positive thing.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[rasmack 0]

In Denmark as a general rule every single student starts with one S/L jump. After that they decide which route they want to take. That way they have already jumped out of a plane on their own and handled a canopy once before they get to AFF.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[Ron 10]

I think that is a great idea.

I often wish that students got to make all three types of training jumps.

Tandem to get an idea.
SL to learn canopy control
AFF to learn FF.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[speedy 0]

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Tandem to get an idea.
SL to learn canopy control
AFF to learn FF.

I have never quite understood the "SL for canopy control" and "AFF for FF" thing. People talk as if AFF students never have to fly a canopy.

So what is exactly the advantage of SL over AFF for canopy control?

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[phoenixlpr 0]

You can not do everything on the same jump as a student.

They can concentrate on canopy control better with an SL jump.

[altichick 1]

SL jump - Theres less other information to think about so the student can focus on canopy control.

AFF students either fixate on the FF part of the dive (the exciting bit!) and brain lock about canopy control or worry so much about canopy control that they can't focus on the dive flow.

Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things!

[mark 107]

I'm having trouble thinking this is a good idea, because I'm imagining that on some jumps the student pulls a ripcord, and on others he doesn't; on some jumps a PRCP is a touch of the handle, on others it's a pull or throw.

What am I missing?

Mark

[peek 21]

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I'm having trouble thinking this is a good idea, because I'm imagining that on some jumps the student pulls a ripcord, and on others he doesn't; on some jumps a PRCP is a touch of the handle, on others it's a pull or throw. What am I missing?

Nothing. This was just note about something interesting I observed, (the main point being that the students did more jumps than they expected they would do that day.)

It was not intended to be a suggestion training progression, but the "catchy" title I gave it might have implied that.

[Ron 10]

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I have never quite understood the "SL for canopy control" and "AFF for FF" thing. People talk as if AFF students never have to fly a canopy.

Which method did you learn?

Severall others have pointed out how AFF students don't pay as close attention to the canopy portion of the FJC as they do the FF portion. And for a good reason. Most think they can do something as simple as pull toggles with radio comands. But Freefall is alien to them (hence the Tandem jump also).

Students learn best in small packets of information. If you dump an entire load of information on them, they will not retain all of it. If you hand them small bite sized bits. They will retain the information better. And success will build success.

So once they understand canopy control, then they can focus on Freefall. It is the same concept that makes Tunnel rats so easy to train, they already understand one portion of the skydive.

So, a SL jump with a focus on canopy control will make the Freefall easier since they will be able to focus on that and not everything at the same time.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Liemberg 0]

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What am I missing?

The fact that more often than not, students have a head on their shoulders?
Usually that makes them able to think...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[Ron 10]

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I'm having trouble thinking this is a good idea, because I'm imagining that on some jumps the student pulls a ripcord, and on others he doesn't; on some jumps a PRCP is a touch of the handle, on others it's a pull or throw.

You could make it so he did the same thing on all jumps.

AFF around here you use throwouts. So on the SL jump you have them grab and throw a PVC handle with paper mache atached stuffed into the same location as the PC.

Thats just one way to go.

But this idea has some merit in the fact that if the AFF student shows up and you have low clouds...Say 5 grand, they can still jump.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[speedy 0]

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I have never quite understood the "SL for canopy control" and "AFF for FF" thing. People talk as if AFF students never have to fly a canopy.

Which method did you learn?

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I did SL

Severall others have pointed out how AFF students don't pay as close attention to the canopy portion of the FJC as they do the FF portion.

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Could it be that some AFF instructors don't pay as much attention to the canopy control as they do the FF.?

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[speedy 0]

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SL jump - Theres less other information to think about so the student can focus on canopy control.

AFF students either fixate on the FF part of the dive (the exciting bit!) and brain lock about canopy control or worry so much about canopy control that they can't focus on the dive flow.

To be honest, I can't say that this generalization really holds true for students at our dropzone. Watch a student with 10 jumps land a canopy and you can't tell if they were SL of AFF trained.

As for letting the SL student concentrate just on canopy control, I have noticed how wound up they get concentrating on their exit.

Oh, I can fix it for you...
"AFF students either fixate on the FF part of the dive (the exciting bit!) and brain lock about canopy control (the exciting bit!)"

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[Ron 10]

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Could it be that some AFF instructors don't pay as much attention to the canopy control as they do the FF.?

*Could be*, But not always the case.

The simple fact is that most students are going to focus on the falling towards the planet at 120 MPH part, and preventing becoming a crater, and not the canopy control part.

People have a limited amount of ability to handle new information. You can overload a person with new stuff and they will decide to focus on what THEY think is important.

My day to day job is as a Training Instructor for a Major Airline. It is a something I see in application every day.

Students focus on what they think is cool or important, and in skydiving that is not normally the canopy control. And since almost EVERYTHING is important. They pick what they want to remember or focus on.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334