RSL impact on our world

[format 1]

Now, why would I (or you) care for RSL saves.
What would be the difference in skydivng world without all those - saved by RSL?

This is a General discussion thread, try not to bother us with emotional response... please

What goes around, comes later.

[Trafficdiver 8]

I think the RSL has saved many from impacting with the world.

Maybe I don't get your question?

[format 1]

I was implying that all people saved by RSL/AAD
would not make a difference

What goes around, comes later.

[dthames 0]

format

Now, why would I (or you) care for RSL saves.
What would be the difference in skydivng world without all those - saved by RSL?

This is a General discussion thread, try not to bother us with emotional response... please

edited: (misunderstood)

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[sammielu 3]

I don't get the question. Are you asking if we changed history such that people who were saved by their RSL were not actually saved, and they died; are those people in general having a positive impact on the Skydiving community?

I don't have an answer for you. I know plenty of people who completed their emergency procedures and saved their own life - and then on gear inspection, the RSL pulled the pin before thir reserve handle did, but I don't consider that an RSL save.

A hypothetical person who experiences a malfunction, cuts away their main, and just waits/hopes/plans on the RSL deploying the reserve - is stupid. I don't like skydiving with stupid people, but there are lots of shades of stupid so I'm out of luck.

Check your gear, check your friends, pay attention to everything.

[piisfish 140]

Like for example, what if Adolf Hitler had been saved by an RSL ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[DocPop 1]

format

Now, why would I (or you) care for RSL saves.
What would be the difference in skydivng world without all those - saved by RSL?

This is a General discussion thread, try not to bother us with emotional response... please

Drunk post? Or sober and badly worded?

I don't understand the question.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[chemist 0]

sammielu

A hypothetical person who experiences a malfunction, cuts away their main, and just waits/hopes/plans on the RSL deploying the reserve - is stupid. I don't like skydiving with stupid people, but there are lots of shades of stupid so I'm out of luck.

Check your gear, check your friends, pay attention to everything.

damn bro this really upsets you ehh? with a skyhook RSL you may find you are under reserve faster than you can reach silver. It does not mean you're stupid

besides you should be aware of altitude that you're cutting away at, if it's mal on opening at 3500' there is plenty of time. Whereas if you have a low altitude canopy collision then ya going through all your procedures is more important

[wmw999 2,456]

It matters to those people, to their families, and their friends. And the RSL's imperfect function helped Bill Booth to decide to design. The skyhook.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[nigel99 501]

wmw999

It matters to those people, to their families, and their friends. And the RSL's imperfect function helped Bill Booth to decide to design. The skyhook.

Wendy P.

Is that really what drove the decision process?

It seems to me that each safety device is unique with some overlap.

RSL - Primary function is to PULL the reserve ripcord
AAD - Primary function is to release the reserve pilot chute enabling the deployment sequence to proceed
MARD -Primary function is to aid the extraction of the reserve freebag using the main and not relying on the reserve PC.

All of them have their limitations and associated problems. BUT the risk/reward is strongly in their favour.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[sammielu 3]

I meant: relying on a backup device to do the work for you is stupid. As in: I'm not going to deploy my reserve ever because I have an RSL to deploy it when I cut away or an AAD to deploy my reserve if I don't pull anything at all - on purpose, not due to an emergency or unconsciousness.

That's an extreme example of stupid, but safety day WAS yesterday and we discussed plenty other examples of stupid risk taking... :)

[3331 137]

Windy,

Bill Booth did not invent the Sky Hook. Mark Hewitt did while he was working at the Relative Workshop a very long time ago.

I don’t know the particulars of patent rights. I was told by someone who knows a guy that heard it at the DeLand Airport Bar in the men’s room that Bill Booth paid Mark Hewitt for the rights to that RSL.

I don’t use an RSL, I jump two Racers with Cypres AAD’s.

I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

[JWest 0]

Is OP basically saying asking, "Would the sport be better off without all the people who have been saved by and RSL?"

[format 1]

DocPop

I don't understand the question.

Getting unconscious/unable to deploy, saved by an AAD? I get it.
The rest - I don't get it.

Kill me for asking

[JWest 0]

format

***I don't understand the question.

Getting unconscious/unable to deploy, saved by an AAD? I get it.
The rest - I don't get it.

Kill me for asking

What do ADDs' and RSLs' have to do with each other? You asked about RSL saves. Also "save" is a poor term to use, "deployment" is much better. The time is takes for an RSL to pull the pin is often faster than the human action to pull the reserve handle.

English isn't your first language and it made your question ambiguous. Try explaining what you want to ask.

Right now I'm still convinced you are asking if the sport would be better of without all the people "saved" by the RSL.

[philly51 0]

I agree with your reply to the original post, BUT not with your statement that with a malfunction at 3500', "that there is plenty of time". There isn't.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!"

[jurgencamps 0]

1. Everybody can and will make mistakes. Not realizing this is a big mistake.
2. Even very experienced skydivers can end up in situations where they do not pull for some reason their reserve handle. For ex. a very experienced cameraman had to cutaway very low. After opening his main, he had his chest strap loosened. He could not find his reserve handle in time. He was not high enough to reach the activation speed of his AAD.

Also more conscious than unconscious skydivers were saved by an AAD.
Ideally certain possibilities should never happen, but reality proves otherwise.

[skytribe 17]

Adolf hitler went in because he didn't have an RSL !!!!

I'm shocked - I didn't know he jumped.

[billvon 3,006]

>What would be the difference in skydivng world without all those - saved by RSL?

Well, Rick Horn, a man who taught thousands of AFF instructors how to teach students, would not have been able to do so - and the sport would be worse off now as a result. He had an RSL save under a Stiletto.

[Di0 2]

format

***I don't understand the question.

Getting unconscious/unable to deploy, saved by an AAD? I get it.
The rest - I don't get it.

Kill me for asking

Being disoriented under a spinning mal, failing to quickly locate the reserve handle, brain lock under stress, a mistake in estimating you altitude when initiating EPs, those are all situations where a backup device like an RLS/maard or other backup devices will save somebody's life.

Yeah, people make mistakes.

Maybe without the technology to "help" them, their mistakes would mean death, but I don't see why the world would be a better place if we can help it today. To me, choosing my gear as appropriate to my experience as possible, and as redundant as possible, is also part of my skydiving "skills", whatever that means.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[billbooth 10]

Quote

3331

Windy,

Bill Booth did not invent the Sky Hook. Mark Hewitt did while he was working at the Relative Workshop a very long time ago.

I don’t know the particulars of patent rights. I was told by someone who knows a guy that heard it at the DeLand Airport Bar in the men’s room that Bill Booth paid Mark Hewitt for the rights to that RSL.

I don’t use an RSL, I jump two Racers with Cypres AAD’s.

I've heard that rumor too. Not true. Mark is a very smart guy, but his Sorcerer base rig RSL system is very different from the Skyhook. It relies on a hand deployed RESERVE pilot chute being pulled by the jumper to release the main/reserve connection. It will NOT automatically release in case of a reserve first deployment, as the Skyhook does, and therefore will not work with the spring loaded pilot chute reserve system we all use.

I had been working on MARD systems for years before I met Mark. Mark DID sell the Sorcerer system for BASE jumpers before I put out the Skyhook, because I hadn't yet worked out all the bugs, so my Skyhook was not yet ready for prime time. If you read my patent application, I clearly reference Mark's design, and state why the Skyhook is a different concept.

I'm glad you jump an AAD...Everyone should. However, if you jumped a Sorcerer-style MARD, and had a total malfunction, followed by an AAD fire, you would probably die, because your reserve pilot chute would remain securely attached to your main riser.

• Quote

[Baksteen 84]

You're never too good to die in this sport - or to take risk-mitigating measures, I might add.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Andy9o8 2]

http://wings.buffalo.edu/eli/eli_iep.htm

[stayhigh 2]

Five cutaways total.

I've tried to beat RSL the first two times, that didn't work. So for the next three cutaways my reserve pillow stayed exactly where it is.

"Peel, pull, and wait."

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[riggerrob 643]

stayhigh

Five cutaways total.

I've tried to beat RSL the first two times, that didn't work. So for the next three cutaways my reserve pillow stayed exactly where it is.

"Peel, pull, and wait."

.....................................................................................

Mr. Stay high is one of those "Cypres babies" who slept through the lesson on how to save his own life.
In the old days, he would have been permanently grounded.
His behaviour demonstrates a profound change in attitudes since the popularity of RSLs peaked (in 1990) and electronic AADs became main-stream (1995).
Without those two gadgets, we would have a higher fatality rate, the general public would still believe that skydiving was more dangerous than sex and we would have fewer stupid people still alive.

The biggest difference is the change in attitudes.
We are going to see a similar change in attitude towards car-driving as automatic-braking, automatic-lane-following devices gradually become standard in automobiles. A decade from now, you will see young drivers genuinely shocked and outraged and baffled as to why some electronic gadget did not prevent them from rear-ending another car!