Solution to high gas prices

[JoeWeber 2,823]

19 hours ago, jimjumper said:

US average is $5.10. That's why $6.44 looks more like greed and control.

How's the traffic now that driving is crazy expensive? Are the HOV lanes packed yet?

[TriGirl 333]

19 hours ago, rifleman said:

19 hours ago, jimjumper said:

And by the way, CA average today hit $6.44...

I wish. Here in the UK we're about to hit £10 per gallon ($12.30).

A significance in impact being that the UK has much better public transportation options around the country, and particularly in the densely populated areas, than the US does.  I have no doubt that this is not perfect, but I can guarantee it beats options available in the US.  Had areas like California, Florida and Texas initiated rail systems supporting and connecting major population centers when we had these fuel hikes 13-14 years ago, the current situation wouldn't be nearly the issue (especially for lower income citizens) that it is now.  Unfortunately, at least here in the Tampa area, right when proposals were up for consideration the prices came back down, so the ideas were put in a drawer.  Now we're back where we started with no new infrastructure to support a different response.

[wmw999 2,534]

1 hour ago, TriGirl said:

Unfortunately, at least here in the Tampa area, right when proposals were up for consideration the prices came back down, so the ideas were put in a drawer.  Now we're back where we started with no new infrastructure to support a different response

Can’t fix the leaking roof when it’s raining, it doesn’t leak when it’s dry…

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 444]

22 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

So that is all on the crude side. Yesterday you said the cost is being driven up by refinery capacity, since crude is not an an all time high. You were saying increasing refinery capacity was hampered by regulations.

How do any of the above 4 points change that? 

https://www.afpm.org/newsroom/blog/refining-capacity-101-what-understand-demanding-restarts

“With a global energy crunch underway, much focus has been placed on crude oil supply and demand. And while this is the primary driver of our current price challenges, it’s not the only factor. Refining matters too.”

“Political and financial pressure to move away from petroleum derived fuels, costs associated with federal and state regulatory compliance and facilities’ singular economic performance all inform these decisions.”  (To reduce refining capacity)

Those four points address crude oil supply AKA “the primary driver of our current price challenge”

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

15 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.afpm.org/newsroom/blog/refining-capacity-101-what-understand-demanding-restarts

“With a global energy crunch underway, much focus has been placed on crude oil supply and demand. And while this is the primary driver of our current price challenges, it’s not the only factor. Refining matters too.”

“Political and financial pressure to move away from petroleum derived fuels, costs associated with federal and state regulatory compliance and facilities’ singular economic performance all inform these decisions.”  (To reduce refining capacity)

Those four points address crude oil supply AKA “the primary driver of our current price challenge”

 

That only make sense if there is significant refining capacity left, otherwise the cost of the base material is not THAT relevant.

If there is significant refining capacity left, then it cannot have THAT big an effect on cost of gasoline. So if the cost isn't being driven by price of crude, or refining capacity, then what is it?

In other words, you keep bringing forward contradicting problems and/or "solutions". Maybe because you keep looking to industry associations for these. It is like quoting the NRA for the solutions to mass shootings. Maybe "thoughts & prayers" will help at the pumps?

[Phil1111 1,149]

28 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.afpm.org/newsroom/blog/refining-capacity-101-what-understand-demanding-restarts

“With a global energy crunch underway, much focus has been placed on crude oil supply and demand. And while this is the primary driver of our current price challenges, it’s not the only factor. Refining matters too.”

“Political and financial pressure to move away from petroleum derived fuels, costs associated with federal and state regulatory compliance and facilities’ singular economic performance all inform these decisions.”  (To reduce refining capacity)

Those four points address crude oil supply AKA “the primary driver of our current price challenge”

 

Don't choke on that self serving baloney sandwich.

"After years of federal lease sales to oil, gas and coal companies, environmentalists had hopes that President Biden would end the fossil fuel bonanza.

But one year after announcing a halt to any new federal oil and gas leasing, Biden has outpaced Donald Trump in issuing drilling permits on public lands. After setting a record for the largest offshore lease sale last year in the Gulf of Mexico, the Interior Department plans to auction off oil and gas drilling rights on more than 200,000 acres across Western states by the end of March, followed by 1 million acres in the Cook Inlet, off the coast of Alaska.

The administration’s actions reveal an uncomfortable truth: Although Biden supports a shift to cleaner sources of energy, he has failed to curb fossil fuel development in the United States. His push to suspend federal oil and gas auctions has run headlong into political and legal challenges,"January 27, 2022 WP.

[brenthutch 444]

5 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Don't choke on that self serving baloney sandwich.

"After years of federal lease sales to oil, gas and coal companies, environmentalists had hopes that President Biden would end the fossil fuel bonanza.

But one year after announcing a halt to any new federal oil and gas leasing, Biden has outpaced Donald Trump in issuing drilling permits on public lands. After setting a record for the largest offshore lease sale last year in the Gulf of Mexico, the Interior Department plans to auction off oil and gas drilling rights on more than 200,000 acres across Western states by the end of March, followed by 1 million acres in the Cook Inlet, off the coast of Alaska.

The administration’s actions reveal an uncomfortable truth: Although Biden supports a shift to cleaner sources of energy, he has failed to curb fossil fuel development in the United States. His push to suspend federal oil and gas auctions has run headlong into political and legal challenges,"January 27, 2022 WP.

Political and legal challenges, AKA reality.  That is why I said years ago that the Green New Deal was just a bunch of magical thinking. (It looks as if I might be right more than just twice a year)

[kallend 2,106]

13 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Maybe "thoughts & prayers" will help at the pumps?

Didn't work, I still needed the credit card.

[brenthutch 444]

“Capacity is added by de-bottlenecking existing units by investing in existing refineries," he explained. "But what we’ve seen over the last two years are shutdowns. We’ve seen refineries closed. We’ve seen units come down. We’ve seen refineries being repurposed to become bio refineries. And we live in a world where the policy, the stated policy of the U.S. government is to reduce demand for the products that refiners produce."

Chevron CEO Mike Wirth

Yet you still have some folks claim that government policies have no impact on the price of gas 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Yet you still have some folks claim that government policies have no impact on the price of gas

No you don't. What we do have is people not blindly believing some memes that the oil prices are all Biden's fault. When that then get's added to by industry association pieces, it gets a little comical. 

[Bigfalls 111]

In the past, every time Saddam Hussein or some other leader in the middle east did something, the price of oil and gas went up immediately.  It was a knee jerk reaction and had nothing to do with the oil and gas that was already in the gas stations, storage tanks or refineries.  When Biden instituted his "war" on fossil fuels, a similar reaction took place.  I am not saying that was the only reason but it contributed.  Supply and demand keeps coming up.  There is an increased demand but I haven't seen and shortage of gas so far.  Somebody is making a lot of money off of the situation.

 

[billvon 3,070]

4 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

No you don't. What we do have is people not blindly believing some memes that the oil prices are all Biden's fault. When that then get's added to by industry association pieces, it gets a little comical. 

Teacher: Class, what does the cat say?
Class: Meow!
Teacher: What does the cow say?
Class: Moo!
Teacher: What does the sheep say?
Class: Biden did it!

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

2 hours ago, Bigfalls said:

In the past, every time Saddam Hussein or some other leader in the middle east did something, the price of oil and gas went up immediately.  It was a knee jerk reaction and had nothing to do with the oil and gas that was already in the gas stations, storage tanks or refineries.  When Biden instituted his "war" on fossil fuels, a similar reaction took place.  I am not saying that was the only reason but it contributed.  Supply and demand keeps coming up.  There is an increased demand but I haven't seen and shortage of gas so far.  Somebody is making a lot of money off of the situation.

 

Hi Big,

Nor do I.  The people complaining today should have been around in the mid-70's when there was a shortage.  Today is nothing compared to then.

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,590]

8 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Big,

Nor do I.  The people complaining today should have been around in the mid-70's when there was a shortage.  Today is nothing compared to then.

Jerry Baumchen

Indeed!

And the people wringing their hands over the current inflation rate (8.6%) should have seen the rates from 1974 to 1981. Hint:

American Inflation Rates: 1914 to 2022

[GeorgiaDon 379]

I'd suggest taxing windfall profits to encourage investment in refineries, and to encourage oil companies to invest in green energy alternatives.  

[JoeWeber 2,823]

3 hours ago, ryoder said:

Indeed!

And the people wringing their hands over the current inflation rate (8.6%) should have seen the rates from 1974 to 1981. Hint:

American Inflation Rates: 1914 to 2022

One good thing about inflation is that treasury rates rise in tandem, sort of. I'm looking forward to locking in some 10 year notes and enjoying the spread in a couple of years after the inflation rate declines.

[Phil1111 1,149]

4 hours ago, ryoder said:

Indeed!

And the people wringing their hands over the current inflation rate (8.6%) should have seen the rates from 1974 to 1981. Hint:

American Inflation Rates: 1914 to 2022

 

Happy days are here again. Where is that 1/2 full bottle of Scotch?

[kallend 2,106]

13 hours ago, Bigfalls said:

.  There is an increased demand but I haven't seen and shortage of gas so far.  Somebody is making a lot of money off of the situation.

 

That would be Shell, ExxonMobil, BP, Chevron, and ConocoPhillips.   In the first quarter of 2022, these companies brought in more than 300 percent more in profits than in the first quarter of 2021.

[DougH 270]

16 hours ago, Bigfalls said:

In the past, every time Saddam Hussein or some other leader in the middle east did something, the price of oil and gas went up immediately.  It was a knee jerk reaction and had nothing to do with the oil and gas that was already in the gas stations, storage tanks or refineries.  When Biden instituted his "war" on fossil fuels, a similar reaction took place.  I am not saying that was the only reason but it contributed.  Supply and demand keeps coming up.  There is an increased demand but I haven't seen and shortage of gas so far.  Somebody is making a lot of money off of the situation.

Demand is not outpacing supply. 

The oil companies answer to their shareholders, which include all of us if you are saving for retirement in some manner other than gold and silver, or real-estate.

The demand for gasoline and diesel is largely inelastic. There aren't alternatives thanks to a lousy public transportation system in many areas. People are resistant to carpooling and ride sharing. Sure some demand may fall off as that road trip becomes unaffordable, but overall people are going to keep using nearly as much gas as they did when prices were at 2 dollars.

We are getting squeezed because the oil companies can, and because investors, at least in the macro sense, are demanding that they squeeze us as hard as possible.

Edited June 17, 2022 by DougH

[Phil1111 1,149]

16 minutes ago, DougH said:

Demand is not outpacing supply. ..

We are getting squeezed because the oil companies can, and because investors, at least in the macro sense, are demanding that they squeeze us as hard as possible.

China, India and Turkey are leading a parade of countries profiting off cheap Russian crude. Even though Russia is discounting oil as low as $80 a bbl. Its net income from oil and gas has declined little. In the west refiners and oil companies have increased margins dramatically.

"India, an oil-hungry country of 1.4 billion people, has guzzled nearly 60 million barrels of Russian oil in 2022 so far, compared with 12 million barrels in all of 2021,...Since Russia’s invasion in late February, global oil prices have soared, giving refiners in India and other countries an added incentive to tap oil Moscow is offering them at steep discounts of $30 to $35, compared with Brent crude and other international oil now trading at about $120 per barrel...

As shipments of Urals oil to much of Europe are cut, crude is instead flowing to Asia, where India has become the top buyer, followed by China. Ship tracking reports show Turkey is another key destination.

“People are realizing that India is such a refining hub, taking it at such a cheap price, refining it and sending it out as clean products because they can make such strong margins on that,” Smith said.

[billvon 3,070]

19 hours ago, Bigfalls said:

 Somebody is making a lot of money off of the situation.

And that is why it won't change any time soon.

[brenthutch 444]

21 hours ago, billvon said:

And that is why it won't change any time soon.

Apple’s profit margin is about double that of Exxon, and government make more off a gallon of gas than the oil companies yet I don’t hear you complain about that.  

[SkyDekker 1,465]

On 6/18/2022 at 5:52 AM, brenthutch said:

and government make more off a gallon of gas than the oil companies

I would love to see this math.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

On 6/18/2022 at 5:52 AM, brenthutch said:

Apple’s profit margin is about double that of Exxon

Ahh apples and oranges....they are exactly the same.

[brenthutch 444]

https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/why-biden-keeps-lying-about-energy

 
“Biden falsely alleged that they were restricting refinery operations when they are, in reality, at 94% of the capacity and maintenance is being delayed.”

“the US government, powerful banks, and major corporations, including Google, Amazon, and Facebook, have redirected investments away from oil and gas and toward renewables, including ethanol. Indeed, much of the loss of refinery capacity is because several refineries are being retrofitted to process biofuels rather than petroleum.”