Jumping while a jumper "missing".

[NWFlyer 2]

Remster

I have never seen operations stop to look for someone. I have never seen operations stop to take care of an incident/accident/fatality.

Though I do believe I have seen the landing area in which the incident took place closed temporarily to allow first responders, etc. to get in there. That's one of the luxuries Eloy has - if one area is closed, everyone can go to the other.

At other DZs, I've only ever seen operations shut down to deal with an incident if there's a need to bring in an air ambulance. In that case, operations are shut down temporarily to give the helicopter clear airspace.

As for missing jumpers, I've also never known a dropzone to shut down.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[riggerrob 643]

That is experience-dependant. It also depends upon whether your buddy landed his reserve in a farmer's field, in the river or in town.
First priority is always to reduce casualties.
So the perfect answer is to land as close as possible to your (reserve-riding) buddy while ensuring your own safety.

For example, one time at California City, I watched another jumper cutaway. His main landed a half mile from the target. Since Cal City is surrounded by open desert, there was little risk to landing out.As a courtesy, I landed beside his cutaway main. Another jumper landed 20 yards away. As we were stowing our toggles, the DZ rigger roared up in a pick-uptruck. We told him "the main is behind that bush."

[CSpenceFLY 1]

tkhayes

At a busy dropzone, there could be several hundred people onsite who are jumping who have nothing to do with the missing person. They may not know them, they likely have never heard of them, they are not affiliated or associated with them. They have absolutely no interest or part in their being missing.

And they may not care. So to stop jumping for these people is purposeless.

Individual choices. Some wish to help, some do not, some will volunteer to search, some will choose ot stay jumping, some will choose to go home.

Not much different than driving by a car accident. If people are already helping, then why would everyone need to stop driving? Some will help, some will not. Leave it be.

As cold as this may sound to some people, I agree 100%
Anyone who thinks this isn't right please make sure you stop at every car wreck that you come up on and help.

[grimmie 186]

When there is a serious injury at a DZ, any DZ, I think it is a good idea to stop jumping for one simple reason. Every medically trained jumper on site is usually working on the injured person. If there is another accident, there is usually no one available to help and all of the DZ medical gear is with the first injured jumper. As soon as they are loaded in the ambulance or helicopter, fire it back up again, IMHO.

note: I have seen it happen 3 times over the years where there have been serious injuries on consecutive loads.

[tkhayes 348]

I think that is even extreme....the reason we stop jumping during an accident is if a) helicopter is inbound or b) the authorities have closed the airport due to the accident.

If you have seen this 3 times, then it is still the exception, not the rule. I would not base a policy on that

[mattjw916 2]

I've had the misfortune of being on various DZs many, many times there were serious injuries or deaths. None of them stopped turning loads. Not sure how shutting down operations would have altered the outcome of any of those events in the slightest.

Even saw a medevac helicopter departing a main landing area while simultaneously hearing manifest announcing a 20min call for the next Otter back in the day. Not exaggerating.

I personally have been boarding an Otter moments after a fatality was announced (they don't say that exactly, but those of us who have been around know what "main landing area is closed" generally means).

Big events like P3 have lots of injuries, mostly landing accidents from what I've personally seen, not a lot of benefit realized in shutting the whole place down IMO.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[diablopilot 2]

topdocker

]
With the advent of wing suits we are seeing people further and further from the Drop Zone (real term, not the airport), the sky portion that has to be watched is getting wider and the time frame longer. That can lead to missed jumpers even with dedicated watchers.

Addressing this point specifically, I've in the past made it mandatory for all wingsuiters jumping from my aircraft to carry a cell phone. Repeated out landings from the same individuals should result in groundings and retraining.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DSE 5]

grimmie

When there is a serious injury at a DZ, any DZ, I think it is a good idea to stop jumping for one simple reason. Every medically trained jumper on site is usually working on the injured person. If there is another accident, there is usually no one available to help and all of the DZ medical gear is with the first injured jumper. As soon as they are loaded in the ambulance or helicopter, fire it back up again, IMHO.

note: I have seen it happen 3 times over the years where there have been serious injuries on consecutive loads.

I don't know if any of the incidents Grimmie has seen are the same incidents I've witnessed at two DZ's, but:
-At one DZ, smart-ass guy decides to swoop the firetruck. Apparently he didn't realize it was a fatal and thought he was being funny. Startled emergency workers and made a bad situation worse, much worse.

-Another DZ, emergency workers were in the area near the runway and the aircraft blew dirt and debris over the bleeding (alive) tib/fib next to the runway.

-Another incident, a student was fixated on the emergency vehicles below, and landed downwind, breaking a wrist.

-Twice, I've seen the medevac have to wait to land while canopies were landing.

[riggerrob 643]

I have seen small DZs shut down because some people were too rattled to concentrate on their next skydive. Manifest shut down jumping for the day because they were afraid of additional casualties.

[DiverMike 5]

Quote

So the perfect answer is to land as close as possible to your (reserve-riding) buddy while ensuring your own safety.

There is no "ensure" in skydiving. It is just accepting/rejecting additional risks. I have less than 500 jumps, and would not intentionally land off dz to chase fabric. Your experience/mileage may vary.

When I had a couple hundred jumps, I was given a little grief because I saw a freebag floating down to the middle of the DZ and didn't follow it down. It was a big load and I immediately flew away from the freebag to avoid it and anybody else trying to follow it down.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[tred 0]

I agree I am not chasing anything (including my own freebag or canopy) into an off landing unless I am very sure I can do it safely.

maybe that will change with more experience and skill down the road but my focus after opening is to get to the ground safely and uninjured

[riggerrob 643]

Agreed!
Whether to chase a free-bag is a question of experience, terrain and canopy. Since I have over 6,000 jumps - including (5 cm) precision-landing competition and dozens of demo jumps - I am confident landing in the middle of a farmer's field to retrieve a free-bag. However, the worse the terrain, the less likely I am to chase a free-bag. If a free-bag lands in town, I MIGHT aim for the nearest soccer field. Far more likely that I will make a mental note of where it landed, (land on the DZ) then walk into town to retrieve the free-bag.

All that changes when I have a tandem student strapped to my chest. Then my dominant priority becomes landing that student softly on the DZ. I have only chased one free-bag while doing a tandem. The free-bag landed in the open desert, a half mile from Cal City. I was strapped to the front of a aspiring TI for an evaluation dive.

Bottom line: a free-bag is easier to replace than a broken leg.

[tred 0]

riggerrob

Since I have over 6,000 jumps - including (5 cm) precision-landing competition and dozens of demo jumps.

im almost there

[Hellis 0]

riggerrob

If a free-bag lands in town, I MIGHT aim for the nearest soccer field. Far more likely that I will make a mental note of where it landed, (land on the DZ) then walk into town to retrieve the free-bag.

Keep in mind some soccer fields have wires going around the field.