Pilot vs Sabre2: which one opens slower/softer?

[skydiverek 63]

I plan on buying either Pilot 168 or Sabre2 170, either one with Dacron lines. Softest/slowest possible openings are my priority number 1. The slower/softer, the better for me (even if it lasts 10 seconds).

So, can you share your comparison, if you have experience with both canopies (preferably in these sizes)? Which one provides softer/slower openings?

[TommyBotten 0]

I have about 600 jumps on Sabre2 170-135, and 150 on a Pilot 150 loaded at around 1.3 and in my experience, the pilot has smoother and better openings.

The Sabre2 tends to alter direction around 90 degrees during the final stages of the opening whereas my pilots where almost always on heading.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Pilot. Not by a great deal though.

[Brutus 1]

I have 100 jumps on my Sabre2 loaded at 1.25-1.3 and have had really slow and soft openings most of the times (sometimes even too slow, I remember pulling at 3000 ft and after the jump checking my altimeter to see the deploy was at 1800 ft)

I noticed it´s a very forgiving canopy in terms of packing but won´t stay on heading most of the openings

I tried a Pilot 170 several times and on heading openings were common. It opens a little faster than my Sabre2 although it still feels like soft opening

[flying_phish 8]

I've got about 600-700 jumps on Pilots (from 188 down to 140), and 200-250 on a Sabre 2 150.

I always liked the Pilot openings better. A little bit smoother, and significantly more consistent in terms of both heading and "smoothness." Pilots snivel longer. Some people don't like that, but I love it.

Sabre 2 openings are generally nice though. Just be ready to grab risers in case it opens off heading.

I will say I like the Sabre 2 landings a little better. I find a little more power on the bottom end of the flare in the S2 compared to the Pilot (as seems to be the case with PD canopies in general). It helps you put it down gently on those no-wind days.

[billvon 2,989]

Above the 132 size - Pilot has smoother/softer/more consistent openings in my experience. I had a 140 that I loved and used for bigways sometimes when I wanted a larger canopy. Its one flaw is that it sometimes took _too_ long to open - and when you're on the outer ring pulling at 2300 you don't want a snively canopy.

[councilman24 37]

I can tie the slider to the bottom of the canopy and make the openings take the rest of your life.

There has got to be such a thing as an absolute too slow. My original Sabre's are just fine. I understand that's hard to others but 10 sec? 2000' What are you smoking erik?

Oh well, let me know if you want that super tack.



And yes I very well know hard openings can kill. RIP Mike

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Rickendiver 6]

I've a little over 200 jumps on my Pilot 168ZPX, about half of them with Dacron, half with Spectra. Openings are a little slower and super gentle with Dacron, but adds a little to the pack volume. I'll take that trade-off any day.
Only have a few Sabre 2 jumps. Opened brisk but not hard, powerful flare, but steeper glide than the Pilot. My Pilot's gotten me back from some loooong spots!

[Pobrause 6]

200 jumps on Sa2 150 @ 1.4
handfull on Sa2 120 @ 1.75
About 20 on Pilot 132 @ 1.59

Pilot had definitely the softer openings, hardly felt anything slowing me down the first 1 1/2 sec during the snivel. Took about 200 feet longer to fully open.
Had the softest openings so far on Katanas though
Flyingwise Katana 1st, Sabre 2nd, Pilot not even 3rd

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[monkycndo 0]

A word of warning, The Pilot will pack bigger than the Sabre2. A ZPX version Pilot will pack about the same size as the Sabre2.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[catfishhunter 2]

I have a BUNCH of sabre2 jumps had a 230-210-190 the 190 was the hardest opening canopy I ever jumped. It would spank me out of the blue. Took me out of a "big way" camp at Perris. Thought I broke my back. couldn't move my legs and couldn't see anything but a blurr for what seemed like forever. I was praying I had a good canopy as I couldn't see anything and I had dumped sub 2000 as I was in the base and had to out track a knuckled tracking above and behind me.

Needless to say I got rid of that canopy and bought another Pilot 188 that I had in my second rig that was the smoothest opening canopy ever and more responsive then my Sabre2. I know have a Pilot 210 demo canopy and the 188. My 188 in my current rig tends to turn right on opening. We have checked the trim and lines and we cant figure out why it turns probably something I am doing and not realizing it but the openings are always smooth.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a pilot and when I go to upsize id consider going back to the sabre2 230. I loved that canopy wish I hadn't sold it now :(

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[faulk04 0]

I put around 200 jumps on a sabre 2 170, then switched over to a pilot 168 for 200 jumps and then put about 500 jumps on 2 different pilot 150's.

The pilot has always opened slower than the sabre in my case. I absolutely loved the pilot because of the openings. I recently thought the openings couldn't get softer and slower but have put about 100 jumps on a chilli 130 and that bad boy opens WAY slower/softer than the pilot

[skydiverek 63]

faulk04

I recently thought the openings couldn't get softer and slower but have put about 100 jumps on a chilli 130 and that bad boy opens WAY slower/softer than the pilot

What canopy is that?

[brbjumping 0]

I've got around 500 jumps on a Pilot 188 and 250 or so on a Sabre2 170. Out of the two, the pilot has better openings.

The pilot had smoother/more consistent openings and flew like a dream. With its flatter glide I was able to get back from some pretty bad spots that left my buddies out in the fields :)

I've been jumping the Sabre2 since late last season and it has slammed me pretty good once or twice putting me out of commission for the day. Also, like others have said, it has a tendency to have off-heading openings ... but I personally find that to be manageable.

Both are good canopies and you wont go wrong with either, but if openings are your priority then I would go with the Pilot.

[Deyan 36]

skydiverek

***I recently thought the openings couldn't get softer and slower but have put about 100 jumps on a chilli 130 and that bad boy opens WAY slower/softer than the pilot

What canopy is that?

This
http://www.flyfirebird.com/fb/downloads/manuals/chilli.pdf

Status- discontinued. That's all you need to know

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[faulk04 0]

yeap discontinued it earlier in the year to focus more on containers than parachutes.

It's in the same class as the crossfire and katana if you wanted something to compare too

[EChen22 0]

Should the Spectre be considered anywhere in this conversation? In my asking around locally for soft openings, that's what's been recommended (as well as the Pilot).

Just curious, have yet to fly any of the above-mentioned.

You may never get rid of the butterflies, but you can teach them to fly in formation.

[skydiverek 63]

I jump Spectre 190 now, with Dacron lines and an oversized slider. Amazing, slooooooow openings . I want to move to a smaller 9-cell, and still have such openings. Hence my original question

[t1mb0b 0]

I've never jumped a Spectre, but I agree with what others say about the Pilot openings- soft and predictable. Sabre 2 can be interesting at times, to say the least....

[ChuckMartin 0]

I really like Pilots. I started on one and did about 300 jumps on a Pilot 188 also did about 50 on a Sabre2 190 then went down to Sabre2 170's. Put about 450 on those. I still have one but just went back and got two Pilot 140's. The pilot opens a lot better and on heading and I feel like they fly and flare a lot nicer also.

[Pat007 0]

catfishhunter

Quote

I know have a Pilot 210 demo canopy and the 188. My 188 in my current rig tends to turn right on opening. We have checked the trim and lines and we cant figure out why it turns probably something I am doing and not realizing it but the openings are always smooth.

I've got about 40 jumps on my Pilot 168 and it also almost always turns to the right on opening - anywhere from 90 to 270 degrees. Haven't been able to figure out why. For awhile I thought it was because I pushed in the nose during packing, but that hasn't panned out. If I packed it in the southern hemisphere would it turn to the left?

I like the canopy otherwise.

My Dad used to ask me if someone jumped off a bridge would I do that too? No, but if they jumped out of an airplane, that's a different question...

[Pobrause 6]

Pat007

***

Quote

I know have a Pilot 210 demo canopy and the 188. My 188 in my current rig tends to turn right on opening. We have checked the trim and lines and we cant figure out why it turns probably something I am doing and not realizing it but the openings are always smooth.

I've got about 40 jumps on my Pilot 168 and it also almost always turns to the right on opening - anywhere from 90 to 270 degrees. Haven't been able to figure out why. For awhile I thought it was because I pushed in the nose during packing, but that hasn't panned out. If I packed it in the southern hemisphere would it turn to the left?

I like the canopy otherwise.


Try and measure both of your thights...
Only two cm in circumference can make a big difference. Maybe tighten your legstraps identically doesn't work for you.
Maybe...
Otherwise: air gremmlins

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[EChen22 0]

skydiverek

I jump Spectre 190 now, with Dacron lines and an oversized slider. Amazing, slooooooow openings . I want to move to a smaller 9-cell, and still have such openings. Hence my original question

Sorry!! Just making sure in the "nice, slow opening canopy" conversation, I wasn't being told incorrectly about the Spectre. Though this thread is making me lean toward a Pilot for sure ... time to demo!

You may never get rid of the butterflies, but you can teach them to fly in formation.

[ILUVCHUTERS 1]

I have about 400 jumps on a pilot 168. Beautiful, soft, slow openings. Cracked me once (packing error, most likely).

I have about 80 on a Sabre 2 150. Not quite as slow, but not crackers either (except again, one time - but that was discovered to be a deployment system problem - replaced pilot chute and all is well again).

I love how my Sabre 2 flies. I couldn't land the Pilot for the life of me, despite it's bigger size, but landings on the Sabre 2 have been brilliant for the most part. I do miss the openings of the Pilot a bit, but the Sabre 2 openings aren't that bad, just taking a bit to get used to, is all :)

[Rick 67]

EChen22

***I jump Spectre 190 now, with Dacron lines and an oversized slider. Amazing, slooooooow openings . I want to move to a smaller 9-cell, and still have such openings. Hence my original question

Sorry!! Just making sure in the "nice, slow opening canopy" conversation, I wasn't being told incorrectly about the Spectre. Though this thread is making me lean toward a Pilot for sure ... time to demo!

I like my Spectre 170 nice soft on heading openings and lots of flare power
I have had 1 hard opening on it in the 7 or 800 jumps I have put on it.
Probably packing error though

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!