Choice of AFF dropzones

[startingout 0]

Hi,

I started an AFF course about a month and a half ago, at a dropzone that I'd prefer not to name (to avoid badmouthing in case I'm the one with the problem).

The AFF 1 jump went just fine, and I was cleared for the next level. The following day, the winds were somewhat stronger, so I wasn't allowed to jump at that point in the day. Another girl was, however, so I'm not sure if she was a student, or just off student status. Anyway, the pilot may have not accounted for the winds properly and let the jumpers off at a bad spot.

This girl couldn't quite make it back to the landing area, or at least she would have had to make a downwind landing to do so. To avoid this, she made a low turn, crashed, and apparently broke her leg, at the very least.

Nobody at the dropzone seemed to care too much. They got an ambulance for her, but nobody from the dropzone went with her. The owner simply said he would talk to her later and ask her why she did that.

Anyway, this got me a bit spooked, and so I walked away. Now, about a month later, the fear has subsided, and I want to continue the course. Because it will be more than a month since I jumped, I have to do a refresher ground school, which the school is kindly letting me do free of charge, though I won't have to repeat the AFF 1 jump.

What I wanted to ask is, if any of you were in my position, would you continue at this dropzone, or go somewhere else? I should add that this school uses Dolphin for the student container, which I know a lot of people don't like. I'm moving to Atlanta later this year, and Skydive the Farm for example uses the Mirage RTS (I know this DZ has gotten fantastic reviews).

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to get the context down.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The AFF 1 jump went just fine, and I was cleared for the next level. The following day, the winds were somewhat stronger, so I wasn't allowed to jump at that point in the day. Another girl was, however, so I'm not sure if she was a student, or just off student status. Anyway, the pilot may have not accounted for the winds properly and let the jumpers off at a bad spot.

This girl couldn't quite make it back to the landing area, or at least she would have had to make a downwind landing to do so. To avoid this, she made a low turn, crashed, and apparently broke her leg, at the very least.

If she had just gotten her A, it's totally her call to go up or not. If she's done with AFF and cleared to self jumpmaster, she shouldn't be able to go up, but again is expected to look out for her own interests.

As for the spotting and landing pattern decisions that lead to her crash, hard to know if you have full details of what decisions were made that lead to that result. You believe she had no penetration into the wind? But was upwind of the LZ?

She may have messed up with the pattern (I know I've done it) and then made a bad decision to turn low. All good reasons for you to ask the questions from your instructor about good patterns, and know when to pick an alternate landing site. And of course, about acceptable wind conditions for your experience and canopy choice.

Dolpin may be cheap, but they're not death traps, esp for student AFF jumping. Some question their use for freefly, but same is true for the Vector IIs and the Eclipse rigs that I got. Unless you have other reasons to distrust this DZ, the woman's accident doesn't seem like a reason to run.

[marks 0]

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What I wanted to ask is, if any of you were in my position, would you continue at this dropzone, or go somewhere else? I should add that this school uses Dolphin for the student container, which I know a lot of people don't like. I'm moving to Atlanta later this year, and Skydive the Farm for example uses the Mirage RTS (I know this DZ has gotten fantastic reviews).

if you have your log book, filled out by a current AFF instructor and you come to skydive the farm for the rest of your training, I will personally guarantee you get your refresher course at no cost. and if hans slaps me for that, "he won't" I will take care of it myself. just ask hans when the next AFF class is, and come sit in on it.
and yes, we do use the mirage RTS. also most all, if not all of our rental gear and student gear, is mirage.

[startingout 0]

Wow, thanks! Talk about a company that knows how to do business . I still have another week and a half before my next AFF, so I'll think about it. Even if I finish my AFF here, I may come to Skydive the Farm as a regular jumper once I get to Atlanta. We'll see.

As for Mirages, all I hear about them on the forums and the gear reviews is that they're top notch rigs, on a level with Vector and Infinity. The only criticism I've heard is that they're more expensive, so for some people it's out of their price range.

[marks 0]

there are alot of good rigs out there, mirage rigs are just one of them. the g3 is a fantastic rig, so is the g4. but if i bought another mirage, I would buy a g3. just because it is as good as a g4 but cheaper.

whatever you decide to do, defiantly check out skydive the farm when your down here. It is growing fast.

[Orange1 0]

hmmm.. just a question, startingout: what have YOU been trained to do if you find yourself with a bad spot? Would that training have led you to make the same mistake as this girl, or to land safely (possibly off the DZ)? If it is the training you are concerned about, this seems an appropriate question to ask...

I doubt there is any DZ anywhere that has never seen an accident. Seeing one early in your career can be a bit spooky. It doesn't seem to me to be a big issue that no-one from the DZ went with her...and maybe they phoned her b/f/husband/parents/whoever is listed to call in emergency to meet her at the hospital?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[startingout 0]

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hmmm.. just a question, startingout: what have YOU been trained to do if you find yourself with a bad spot? Would that training have led you to make the same mistake as this girl, or to land safely (possibly off the DZ)? If it is the training you are concerned about, this seems an appropriate question to ask...

I doubt there is any DZ anywhere that has never seen an accident. Seeing one early in your career can be a bit spooky. It doesn't seem to me to be a big issue that no-one from the DZ went with her...and maybe they phoned her b/f/husband/parents/whoever is listed to call in emergency to meet her at the hospital?

I was trained not to make low turns (I forget the exact altitude, I think it's either 300 or 500 ft. I have to check my notes :-)). If you need to make a low turn to avoid a downwind landing, then you make a downwind landing and PLF on touchdown. So obviously this girl screwed up.

Part of the reason I didn't consider returning for so long was that, after walking away from the DZ that day, I then ended up travelling for work-related reasons for several weeks. I thought I could bang out the course fairly quickly, but I realized that I need to pace myself and take each jump one at a time. After returning home, I was concerned that too much time had passed, so that I would be better off just starting fresh somewhere else. But since the school is offering to give me the refresher free of charge, then I might simply continue there (though at the very worst I have the very generous backup offer from Skydive the Farm ).

[altichick 1]

Any accident on a DZ sucks but just because you felt that nobody seemed to care it doesn't mean it was actually that way!

Accidents do happen and the best response is a calm professional one. During and just after an accident there is usually alot going behind the scenes. The staff are busy seeing to the jumper, calling an ambulance and speaking to the jumpers family etc.

Until the jumper has gone to hospital and been properly assessed DZ staff can only guess at what the injuries are. Initially there is nothing to be gained by involving you or discussing the accident with tandem customers, new jumpers or anyone who isn't directly involved. There is nothing worse than everyone running around panicking and starting rumors.

Once the facts are known then there may well be lessons that can be learned and your instructors should be happy to talk to you about what you can learn from the incident. But immediately after the accident is not the time for that.

What seemed like a cold or uncaring response was quite possibly a calm professional response in the immediate time after the accident. I expect that had you stuck around or gone back the following weekend you would have heard the full story once all the facts were known.

I've never been on a DZ and felt that people didn't care when one of us gets hurt... You'll probably find the jumper had lots of visitors in hospital from the DZ over the following days
As for old gear... sure it's not as pretty or as comfortable as new gear but so long as it's well maintained so that it is safe it's perfectly good for AFF and student jumps.

Good luck with the rest of your AFF

Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things!

[milkybar 0]

I was trained not to make low turns (I forget the exact altitude, I think it's either 300 or 500 ft. I have to check my notes :-)). If you need to make a low turn to avoid a downwind landing, then you make a downwind landing and PLF on touchdown. So obviously this girl screwed up.

Part of the reason I didn't consider returning for so long was that, after walking away from the DZ that day, I then ended up travelling for work-related reasons for several weeks. I thought I could bang out the course fairly quickly, but I realized that I need to pace myself and take each jump one at a time.

Dolphins are fine for students.
Relay your concerns to the instructors at the DZ, they should take the time to demonstrate the "airworthiness" of the rigs, if they don't talk to the DZO, and inform him why your switching to a different DZ.
You never mention how the instructors treat you: Do they take time to explain things thoroughly? - Answer your questions? - Full detailed debrief of your jump? - Treat you as an equal?
Follow your gut instinct.
It's very important that you are completely confident in your instructors and equipment.
Blue Skies
And welcome to the place where Angels die in ecstasy.........Freefall.

[startingout 0]

Hi,

Okay, thanks for the clarification

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[startingout 0]

[Brian425 0]

Starting out, I was hurt about 1.5 years go skydiving. One of the people I jump know said "It was stange, the DZ just kept on running like nothing happened." Well it had to keep running. They have tandems, students and fun jumpers to take care of. While business as usual was going, the pilot flew over where I landed out, dipped the wings and headed in to the DZ. In 5 miutes the DZ owner was there and a few minutes later the ambulance was there. The DZ called my wife, my frineds gathered up my stuff, took my stuff and truck to the hospital and waited until my wife got there.

To someone who was not involved in the accident, it seemed like noting happened. In reality, lots of people took calm and deliberate actions to take care of me. You will find that skydivers always look out for each other. We my argue and bitch to each other; but, when something bad happens, we are family.

You need to make your own choice about where to finish AFF. Just ask around a little before making a final decision about how they treated the injury. I think you will be surprised what went on behind the scenes.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[skydiverjerry 0]

HI THERE

good luck with your aff!

first of all drop zones have a set procedure for dealing with injuries to skydivers, and people asigned to deal with that.

students dont usualy get to hear about it until things calm down and the bar light is on

the reason is that the wrong info might be passed on, or the dz staff is busy dealing with it. you might see some staff gathered in a huddle discussing it, but generaly they try not to let you worry or get stressed out with whats happening.

as for the opperation going on. this is again perfectly normal. i have seen a situation were police and ambulance were on the dz and yet the planes were still flying, (one of the largest dzs in the usa)

have you been back to talk to the dz staff? not to jump just to talk? i am sure they will answere any questions you may have, they are there to help you!
talk to the CCI or S&TA they can answere your questions in a simple way so that you can learn from the jumpors error.

again good luck and blue skies

life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.

[startingout 0]

Yeah, so, my bad I guess . Well, just wanted to ask to make sure there was nothing out of the ordinary going on. This is one sport where you can't be too careful. For the record, if any of my instructors from the DZ happen to catch this post, I apologize for causing any offense, it was nothing personal. As everyone can see, I have not named any names, so I was being discreet about the whole situation .

And next time, I'll just talk to the people at the DZ directly. I guess being new to the sport I didn't want to come off seeming like a "wuss," or being judgmental out of ignorance.

[skydiverjerry 0]

you asked the right questions no need to be sorry for that,

and you asked in the right way so again no need to be sorry,

good luck with your skydives hope you finnish it

life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.