safe reserve wing loading

[coolskydiverguy 0]

I am buying a new smaller container so that I look cooler and maybe people will like me.

What would be the highest wing loading that you would feel comfortable with if you were unable to unstow your toggles and flare your reserve. (god forbid)

[RiggerLee 61]

.3

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

[wasatchrider 0]

if you want to look cool just pick the smallest reserve possible who cares about the wing loading

BASE 1519

[Pobrause 6]

I picked what I can comfortably land everywhere as a main which is a 126 Optimum at 1.7

I know I'm screwed if I ever have to land this thing unconscious ore disabled.
And I know many others are that are jumping reserves that small

To answere your question:

200+ sqft WL under 1:1

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[countzero 7]

If I can't unstow and flare that means I can't fly and avoid obstacles either. So I'm going with a very light WL 1.1 or less.

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[erdnarob 1]

You have first to answer this question: what do you prefer, function or fashion ? IMO one should always go for function first ie : a parachute has for function to be able to land you safely. Now, a reserve is a bit like a spare tire, you don't expect a lot of performance from it, you want it to save your life and land you with no injury. OTOH I believe that a reserve should have its lines shorter than the main. This will likely provide you with a biplane in case of two parachutes out. You then use your main as a lead while only the reserve remains on its brakes.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[councilman24 37]

No number you are ever going to pick. Lee's 0.3 is about right. You might be better off with an unmodified round. Lower the horizontal component since your not going to flare anyway.

By definition your reserve is not going to meet the TSO standards. Remember PD as an exemption to the landing velocity for some of it's reserves. Exemptions likely longer available and flared landings not allowed to meet requirements in new TSO standard.

Small reserve and unconscious is incompatible with life.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

I'd add .5 to the wing-loading of my main so I can be sure to swoop and catch my D-Bag on my way down! But isn't there some way you could have combined this with a medical advice questions so I could give you bad advice on two things at the same time?

Honestly I wouldn't feel comfortable landing my main if I were unable to unstow the toggles and flare it, much less my (only 10 sqft less) reserve. If that were a criteria to choose by, I'd still be flying a 300.

You gotta remember that in the event that you're unconscious, hopefully it'll just drag you along the ground on your face, thus protecting your precious femurs. Yay! There's my medical advice!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[gowlerk 2,216]

coolskydiverguy

I am buying a new smaller container so that I look cooler and maybe people will like me.

What would be the highest wing loading that you would feel comfortable with if you were unable to unstow your toggles and flare your reserve. (god forbid)

Why would you care? No one will like you or think you are cool if you land without flaring. Go with the smallest reserve you can land. Take chances, live life, and learn proxy.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 3,006]

>What would be the highest wing loading that you would feel comfortable with if
>you were unable to unstow your toggles and flare your reserve. (god forbid)

Mantas were pretty easy to flare with "stuck" toggles so I'd definitely be OK at 288 square feet. (I once landed one that way just to see if I could do it; PLFed but didn't need to.)

[JohnMitchell 16]

billvon

>What would be the highest wing loading that you would feel comfortable with if
>you were unable to unstow your toggles and flare your reserve. (god forbid)

Mantas were pretty easy to flare with "stuck" toggles so I'd definitely be OK at 288 square feet. (I once landed one that way just to see if I could do it; PLFed but didn't need to.)

But you still flared. What would you be comfortable with if you were unconscious and couldn't flare at all?

I personally don't have an answer for that. Maybe .4 or .3.

My current reserve I load about 1 to 1.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

JohnMitchell

But you still flared. What would you be comfortable with if you were unconscious and couldn't flare at all?

I personally don't have an answer for that. Maybe .4 or .3.

My current reserve I load about 1 to 1.

Back around early jump 20 or so I hit the ground on a 280, THEN flared. Hurt like hell and limped for a couple weeks, but I'd say I technically walked away from it. May have actually fractured some stuff in the balls of my feet, but it didn't seem like particularly important stuff. I mean, I was still able to walk and no bones were sticking out anywhere. Anything you can walk away from with no bones sticking out is a success in my book!

I think that was loading around .8-ish. I also didn't do THAT again. Learning works so much better when pain's involved!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[wicodefly 0]

What is the likely outcome of landing loaded at 1 to 1:1 without flaring? Femur?

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[NWFlyer 2]

wicodefly

What is the likely outcome of landing loaded at 1 to 1:1 without flaring? Femur?

Depends on a lot of factors. Are brakes stowed? What is the terrain like? Soft dirt could be very different from hard asphalt. Is the jumper slumped or hanging straight?

A jumper at Skydance had an AAD fire in June of last year and landed unconscious in a freshly plowed field under a 1:1 reserve. He broke his back, had to have surgery and a halo brace, but made a full recovery (also facial lacerations and lost some teeth).

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[gowlerk 2,216]

A local low timer here got distracted while landing his Specter 210 loaded about 1:1 and failed to flare at all. The main result was fractures of the tib/fib in two places each.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[councilman24 37]

Remember these non-flare landings were with brakes unstowed. But still expect to get hurt under any canopy with no control. The exception might be the aviator pilot rig. Follow weight limits and you can land hands off. A detuned deep brake ram air lightly loaded.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[faulknerwn 38]

I must have tougher bones! Back in my younger dumber days I accidentally landed mains without flaring twice.. One was my first night jump - it was dark! - and I found out where the ground was when I spit it out of my mouth. My knee swelled up a bit but I jumped again the next day. That was on a Monarch 135 loaded at 1.1

Second time was again almost 20 years ago when I dropped a toggle right before landing. Didn't have time to grab risers or anything - just a split second to put my feet and knees together. Flipped through the risers as I rolled through, and other than being sore, was fine. That was on a Lightning 113 loaded around 1.3

I definitely don't recommend it though!

[tkhayes 348]

that is the scenario I like to relate to people. Save a bunch of money by not buying an AAD, at least depending on the size of your reserve. Because the AAD is designed for the unconscious or incapacitated scenario.

Landing your reserve, brakes set, no flare, possibly downwind.

Now as k yourself again about what size reserve YOU want to have.

[ridebmxbikes 0]

Lose the AAD and you wont have to worry about landing a reserve unconscious

[monkycndo 0]

With AAD and small reserve versus a larger reserve.

Closed versus open casket.

I upsized my reserve when ordering my last container. I'm too pretty to have a closed casket.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[shift 0]

theres a lot of opinion on the subject, and mine is "bigger is better"

after the chaos of a cutaway, you dont want to be struggling to learn a new canopy. get down safely, buy some beer, and get back on the next load you can.

[JeffCa 0]

monkycndo

With AAD and small reserve versus a larger reserve.

Closed versus open casket.

I intend to survive an unconscious scenario. My reserve is a 0.8 wingloading, 30 sq ft bigger than my main. I think I can keep it that way, even if I downsize the main. There is at least one person on these forums who has survived the unconscious scenario, and there could be others I don't know about.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[mcordell 2]

I'm at 1.1 and 1.16 depending on which rig I am jumping. I'm comfortable with both while I am conscious. If I am unconscious I believe I will survive it but I will likely be seriously injured. Better than the alternative.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[champu 1]

monkycndo

With AAD and small reserve versus a larger reserve.

Closed versus open casket.

I upsized my reserve when ordering my last container. I'm too pretty to have a closed casket.

I know this thread got off to a great start, and may not be all that serious at this point, but as I've said before I think the unconcious AAD fire / half-brake unflared reserve landing scenario is a stupid one to bring up when talking about reserve size selection and jumping with or without an AAD. The reason being...

councilman24

No number you are ever going to pick.

Virtually no one is jumping reserves loaded in the 0.3-0.7:1 range so why do we continue to toss that out there as the benchmark to shoot for? And why do people (only half-jokingly) suggest they should forego an AAD altogether unless they get there? There are so many more meaningful, more likely to matter, and more easily achievable thresholds to stay below when it comes to reserve wing loading.

[uberchris 0]

this is why i NEED to upsize my reserve. even an optimum 143 would be better than my pdr 126. i was stupid and ordered a smaller container before purchasing my canopies because i planned to "one day" downsize. at this point in my career id rather go back up to a 150 or a pilot 140 and never go smaller. im an idiot, and i may sell my gear to upsize. it sucks to get caught up in getting your first awesome custom container. i did not think that one through enough.

gravity brings me down.........