Another upside down thing to affirm our pretentiousness

[JoeWeber 2,720]

At the risk of exposing my neanderthal self, I have never considered Mondrian to be anything more than a hack. Schadenfreude is only the beginning of the happiness I feel now that one of his ridiculous artworks was discovered to be hanging upside down for 75 years in a Dutch Museum. Even better are all of the art understander's and their absurd explanations about how the sky was at the bottom but not at the top yada, yada, yada. No surprise is that the most of Mondrian's works were labeled on the back side for top and bottom orientation because who could know? You know, just like current US politics.

[wmw999 2,444]

I, on the other hand, can't stand Jackson Pollock. But go figure -- I saw a fake Pollock once that I really liked. Maybe you can do some Pollock dripping on a Mondrian.

Wendy P.

[jakee 1,489]

I don't think Mondrian himself could be a hack for a few reasons, first because he was clearly a bloody good painter before he ever discovered rectangles. Also because he genuinely believed in what he was doing, even decorating his own studios/homes like they were giant 3D living versions of his works. Also because a lot of his stuff (though I don't get that one at all) is really cool to look at. It's fun. It might look simple but it's always easy to dismiss something simple after it's been thought of. It’s not easy to think of it in the first place and it takes balls to put out into the world something so completely brand new. Mostly though, it inspired one of the most iconic pro cycling kits ever, worn it one of the greatest Tour de France battles ever. The sponsor still makes Mondrian inspired bikes and they still look really cool.

The people who definitely are hacks are the critics who profess to be able to tell you what it all means while not even noticing that two versions of the same composition weren't the same way up for 40 years. I think it's pretty well established that almost the entire modern art dealership scene is one massive money laundering cartel anyway.

Edited October 30, 2022 by jakee

[kallend 2,026]

Vermeer's "Girl with a flute" was just recently discovered to not be a Vermeer after all.

And Han van Meegeren fooled the experts for years with his fake Vermeers.

[Phil1111 1,149]

Fake art, fake wine, etc. All designed to separate the pretentious from their money. As such they serve a public service.

[kallend 2,026]

6 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Fake art, fake wine, etc. All designed to separate the pretentious from their money. As such they serve a public service.

In contrast,  relics of 'the true cross', saints' bones, etc. are designed to enrich a very weathy institution at the expense of the poor and gullible.

[ryoder 1,590]

19 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Fake art, fake wine, etc. All designed to separate the pretentious from their money. As such they serve a public service.

The high end art market is also useful to help the wealthy avoid taxes:

 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

6 hours ago, jakee said:

I don't think Mondrian himself could be a hack for a few reasons, first because he was clearly a bloody good painter before he ever discovered rectangles. Also because he genuinely believed in what he was doing, even decorating his own studios/homes like they were giant 3D living versions of his works. Also because a lot of his stuff (though I don't get that one at all) is really cool to look at. It's fun. It might look simple but it's always easy to dismiss something simple after it's been thought of. It’s not easy to think of it in the first place and it takes balls to put out into the world something so completely brand new. Mostly though, it inspired one of the most iconic pro cycling kits ever, worn it one of the greatest Tour de France battles ever. The sponsor still makes Mondrian inspired bikes and they still look really cool.

The people who definitely are hacks are the critics who profess to be able to tell you what it all means while not even noticing that two versions of the same composition weren't the same way up for 40 years. I think it's pretty well established that almost the entire modern art dealership scene is one massive money laundering cartel anyway.

You're right. Saying he was a hack was wrong. How about he went hack? 

[Phil1111 1,149]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

In contrast,  relics of 'the true cross', saints' bones, etc. are designed to enrich a very weathy institution at the expense of the poor and gullible.

Yeah. The Mormon church has $100 billion in real estate including 1.75 million acres of farmland(WSJ reporting). Recently reported they took $1 billion in donations from Canada and transferred it to the US.

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Yeah. The Mormon church has $100 billion in real estate including 1.75 million acres of farmland(WSJ reporting). Recently reported they took $1 billion in donations from Canada and transferred it to the US.

Hi Phil,

'A fool and his money are soon parted.'

Nothing to see here, folks; move along.

Jerry Baumchen

Edited October 30, 2022 by JerryBaumchen

[jakee 1,489]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

You're right. Saying he was a hack was wrong. How about he went hack? 

Maybe. For sure he painted a whole bunch of stuff that all looked about the same for a while, but then he painted stuff that looked different too. But the (very little) I know about him suggests he was genuine about what he was doing even if I can't understand a word of his explanation of what it's supposed to be. And it was something new and different, and for some reason it makes me (and a bunch of other people) happy to look at it. That's good enough for me.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

7 hours ago, jakee said:

Maybe. For sure he painted a whole bunch of stuff that all looked about the same for a while, but then he painted stuff that looked different too. But the (very little) I know about him suggests he was genuine about what he was doing even if I can't understand a word of his explanation of what it's supposed to be. And it was something new and different, and for some reason it makes me (and a bunch of other people) happy to look at it. That's good enough for me.

If you're happy then the entire purpose of this forum and all of the hard work by everyone, especially BIGUN, has been worth it. Time to turn out the lights.

[oldwomanc6 52]

[jakee 1,489]

6 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

If you're happy then the entire purpose of this forum and all of the hard work by everyone, especially BIGUN, has been worth it. Time to turn out the lights.

Why are you taking credit for Mondrian’s achievement when you think he’s a hack?

[wmw999 2,444]

OK, then, clearly Jakee is NOT happy...

Cue Church Lady face

Wendy P.

[jakee 1,489]

25 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

OK, then, clearly Jakee is NOT happy...

Cue Church Lady face

Wendy P.

Why are you so unhappy about everything?

[JoeWeber 2,720]

47 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

OK, then, clearly Jakee is NOT happy...

Cue Church Lady face

Wendy P.

Nah, he's very happy.

[jakee 1,489]

55 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Nah, he's very happy.

You've posted more than I have lately. If you want to share what's upsetting you maybe we can help?

[JoeWeber 2,720]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

You've posted more than I have lately. If you want to share what's upsetting you maybe we can help?

Did someone give you a self help book?

[jakee 1,489]

10 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Did someone give you a self help book?

Do you think you're me?

[billvon 2,990]

What is it with you two?  It seems like you both go to great extremes to get yourselves annoyed.  Please do these back-and-forth one liners in PM's (or better yet just avoid them.)

[SkyDekker 1,465]

On 10/29/2022 at 8:35 PM, JoeWeber said:

At the risk of exposing my neanderthal self, I have never considered Mondrian to be anything more than a hack. Schadenfreude is only the beginning of the happiness I feel now that one of his ridiculous artworks was discovered to be hanging upside down for 75 years in a Dutch Museum. Even better are all of the art understander's and their absurd explanations about how the sky was at the bottom but not at the top yada, yada, yada. No surprise is that the most of Mondrian's works were labeled on the back side for top and bottom orientation because who could know? You know, just like current US politics.

I guess when you drop an "a" and go from Mondriaan to Mondrian it affects your art. Or maybe moving to New York from Paris did?

Regardless none of that makes you a Neanderthal. Thinking it hang in a Dutch museum the last 75 years....that makes you a Neanderthal 

[jakee 1,489]

18 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Regardless none of that makes you a Neanderthal. Thinking it hang in a Dutch museum the last 75 years....that makes you a Neanderthal 

Crikey, memorising every work in every museum is a high bar! But thinking that works of art are absurd and the artist a hack simply because he doesn't personally enjoy them... I'm not sure I can think of much that's more pretentious than that.

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

What is it with you two?  It seems like you both go to great extremes to get yourselves annoyed. 

I just said I liked some paintings. I have no idea why that annoyed him so much.

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

Hi folks,

I probably should stay out of this one; but, we all know how it is.

There is a lot of 'art' that I think is garbage.  Others think differently.

So what!!!!!!!  

We are all individuals with our own likes, dislikes, etc.

I have never told anyone that I think his wife is ugly.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  My all-time favorite painting is Twilight in the Wilderness:  Twilight in the Wilderness - Wikipedia

The original is in the Cleveland Museum of Art, in Cleveland, OH; I have seen it there.

A copy of it hangs over the fireplace in my Family Room.