Christians don’t believe in Democracy

[JoeWeber 2,722]

1 hour ago, jaybird18c said:

 

“some 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history categorize only 123 as being religious in nature. This is only 6.98% of all wars. The percentage is less than half that, at 3.23%, if you subtract those waged in the name of Islam (66). The relationship between religion and war, which skeptics have depicted, is in stark contrast to the facts. Despite this reality, people like Richard Dawkins, who in his book The God Delusion, claim that without religion there would be no labels by which to decide whom to oppress and whom to avenge. Critics of religion continue to make such claims which allude to religion as the ultimate factor responsible for world oppression and violence, and in doing so seem to insinuate that it in some way has anything to do with the coherence of the religious view. Still, it is clear that religion has not played a significant role in most of the world’s wars, though even if it had, that fact would be irrelevant in trying to prove a religious viewpoint false.”

 

“secular reasoning and naturalistic philosophies have actually been involved in the most bloodshed. The number of people who perished in religious conflicts pales in comparison to the slaughter and butchery which has taken place under non-religious leaders. Ideas have consequences, and in the 20^th century they contributed to the democide of an unprecedented number of people. Russia’s communist USSR gave rise to both Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Illich Lenin whom murdered 42,672,000 and 4,017,000, China’s communist Mao Tse-tung and militarist/fascist Chiang Kai-sheck whom murdered 37,828,000 and 10,214,000, communist Cambodia’s Pol Pot whom murdered 2,397,000, Germany’s fascist Adolf Hitler whom murdered 20,946,000, and Imperial Japan’s militarist/fascist Tojo Hideki whom murdered 3,990,000. From 1917 to 1987, in a span of under 70 years, roughly 121,332,000 human beings were murdered by these government regimes.”

 

https://blogs.uoregon.edu/dylanjtjohnson/2016/04/21/has-religion-been-a-chief-cause-of-wars-throughout-history/

Sure, and the Reichsknonkordat treaty between the Holy See and the Nazis giving them a clear running lane had no religious component. Also, no doubt, it was just to get a good deal that the Wehrmacht belt buckles were embossed with the words "Gott Mit Uns". Certainly it might have been just a casual remark like when our soldiers claim "For God and Country" when killing our enemies. Even so, we constantly find the claim of divine providence in side the trigger guard.

[jaybird18c 24]

9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Sure, and the Reichsknonkordat treaty between the Holy See and the Nazis giving them a clear running lane had no religious component. Also, no doubt, it was just to get a good deal that the Wehrmacht belt buckles were embossed with the words "Gott Mit Uns". Certainly it might have been just a casual remark like when our soldiers claim "For God and Country" when killing our enemies. Even so, we constantly find the claim of divine providence in side the trigger guard.

Yeah…yeah… And we all know that bad people do bad things to other people and always have, religious or not. And it’s also true that the bad things people do in the name of Christianity in no way takes away from the truth of the biblical message, which is peace to mankind through Jesus Christ.

[gowlerk 2,200]

11 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Yeah…yeah… And we all know that bad people do bad things to other people and always have, religious or not. And it’s also true that the bad things people do in the name of Christianity in no way takes away from the truth of the biblical message, which is peace to mankind through Jesus Christ.

The human race has a long history of dividing up into tribes and killing over control of resources. Sometime theology has been used as justification. But it has almost always been only one factor. We are animals and we act like animals.

[jaybird18c 24]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

The human race has a long history of dividing up into tribes and killing over control of resources. Sometime theology has been used as justification. But it has almost always been only one factor. We are animals and we act like animals.

Well…the good news is for all tribes.

[gowlerk 2,200]

12 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Well…the good news is for all tribes.

Good Lord, have you ever worked in sales?

[JoeWeber 2,722]

2 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

And it’s also true that the bad things people do in the name of Christianity in no way takes away from the truth of the biblical message, which is peace to mankind through Jesus Christ.

If you believe that bit, and I do not. Jay, we are in full disagreement on the truth of Christianity but I must say that I am very thankful for your forceful defense of your beliefs over the last few days. You've given  several of us here the chance to be more engaged on one of the most important topics of our time. That's a good thing for all. Have a great night.

[Stumpy 284]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

If you believe that bit, and I do not. Jay, we are in full disagreement on the truth of Christianity but I must say that I am very thankful for your forceful defense of your beliefs over the last few days. You've given  several of us here the chance to be more engaged on one of the most important topics of our time. That's a good thing for all. Have a great night.

Interesting - aside from right wing governments trying to push religious beliefs on me and oppress people I know with them, christianity has the same affect on my life as all the other religion myths - i.e. none. Jay is welcome to his beliefs but the judgement on others is frankly hilarious.

[jakee 1,498]

8 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

And it’s also true that the bad things people do in the name of Christianity in no way takes away from the truth of the biblical message, which is peace to mankind through Jesus Christ.

But… how is that true? How does Jesus bring peace to mankind? Unless you’re talking about peace after we’re dead you haven’t said a word on this subject yet.

 

And I mean, 2000 years later it’s been going so well…

[olofscience 480]

16 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Singing is good!

Not when it's in the middle of a discussion like this, then it's just loony.

[Phil1111 1,149]

2 hours ago, Stumpy said:

... christianity has the same affect on my life as all the other religion myths - i.e. none. Jay is welcome to his beliefs but the judgement on others is frankly hilarious.

Because you don't live in America. Where the christian right is now embedded in the USSC. Where anti-abortion measures control the GOP/pandering party. Where control of conservative states have severely restricted neo-natal health care. Where doctors have abandoned the care of pregnant women because of liability.

[kallend 2,027]

48 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Because you don't live in America. Where the christian right is now embedded in the USSC. Where anti-abortion measures control the GOP/pandering party. Where control of conservative states have severely restricted neo-natal health care. Where doctors have abandoned the care of pregnant women because of liability.

Phil is correct.  Even in Illinois, one of the more liberal states in the USA, many of our laws exist only because of Christian influence.  We have cities where car dealerships must close on Sundays (in addition to silly alcohol sales restrictions).  Fortunately womens' reproductive health care is protected here despite the best efforts of Christian busybodies to restrict it.

[gowlerk 2,200]

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Because you don't live in America. Where the christian right is now embedded in the USSC. Where anti-abortion measures control the GOP/pandering party. Where control of conservative states have severely restricted neo-natal health care. Where doctors have abandoned the care of pregnant women because of liability.

But still we don't know....do Christians believe in democracy? Like all other things in a huge and deeply diverse group there is no one answer.

[kallend 2,027]

4 hours ago, Stumpy said:

Interesting - aside from right wing governments trying to push religious beliefs on me and oppress people I know with them, christianity has the same affect on my life as all the other religion myths - i.e. none. Jay is welcome to his beliefs but the judgement on others is frankly hilarious.

You are fortunate not to be female and  live in a jurisdiction where Christians are forcing women to go throuh pregnancy and childbirth against their wishes.

[gowlerk 2,200]

22 minutes ago, kallend said:

You are fortunate not to be female and  live in a jurisdiction where Christians are forcing women to go throuh pregnancy and childbirth against their wishes.

The backlash against the politicians who pander to the religious right is gathering steam. Soon many "Christians" will be even more against democracy.

Edited August 30, 2023 by gowlerk

[winsor 236]

13 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

 

“some 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history categorize only 123 as being religious in nature. This is only 6.98% of all wars. The percentage is less than half that, at 3.23%, if you subtract those waged in the name of Islam (66). The relationship between religion and war, which skeptics have depicted, is in stark contrast to the facts. Despite this reality, people like Richard Dawkins, who in his book The God Delusion, claim that without religion there would be no labels by which to decide whom to oppress and whom to avenge. Critics of religion continue to make such claims which allude to religion as the ultimate factor responsible for world oppression and violence, and in doing so seem to insinuate that it in some way has anything to do with the coherence of the religious view. Still, it is clear that religion has not played a significant role in most of the world’s wars, though even if it had, that fact would be irrelevant in trying to prove a religious viewpoint false.”

 

“secular reasoning and naturalistic philosophies have actually been involved in the most bloodshed. The number of people who perished in religious conflicts pales in comparison to the slaughter and butchery which has taken place under non-religious leaders. Ideas have consequences, and in the 20^th century they contributed to the democide of an unprecedented number of people. Russia’s communist USSR gave rise to both Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Illich Lenin whom murdered 42,672,000 and 4,017,000, China’s communist Mao Tse-tung and militarist/fascist Chiang Kai-sheck whom murdered 37,828,000 and 10,214,000, communist Cambodia’s Pol Pot whom murdered 2,397,000, Germany’s fascist Adolf Hitler whom murdered 20,946,000, and Imperial Japan’s militarist/fascist Tojo Hideki whom murdered 3,990,000. From 1917 to 1987, in a span of under 70 years, roughly 121,332,000 human beings were murdered by these government regimes.”

 

https://blogs.uoregon.edu/dylanjtjohnson/2016/04/21/has-religion-been-a-chief-cause-of-wars-throughout-history/

Since Communism and its variants are based on True Belief (tm) in demonstrably false ideology, it qualifies nicely as religion.  National Socialism is a pathological variant.

Take this into consideration and the virulence of religion outweighs most other forms of evil.

[gowlerk 2,200]

7 minutes ago, winsor said:

Since Communism and its variants are based on True Belief (tm) in demonstrably false ideology, it qualifies nicely as religion.  National Socialism is a pathological variant.

Communism for all it's flaws never claimed to recognize a higher or supernatural power. It is a good demonstration that people can be misled by promises of a better life in this world without making claims of an afterlife. Not a religion.

[kallend 2,027]

17 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Communism for all it's flaws never claimed to recognize a higher or supernatural power. It is a good demonstration that people can be misled by promises of a better life in this world without making claims of an afterlife. Not a religion.

But it certainly recognized a myth as reality,  even if no afterlife was involved.

[JoeWeber 2,722]

13 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Yeah…yeah… And we all know that bad people do bad things to other people and always have, religious or not. And it’s also true that the bad things people do in the name of Christianity in no way takes away from the truth of the biblical message, which is peace to mankind through Jesus Christ.

Out of curiosity, do any of these images, in your opinion, depict Jesus as he was?

[gowlerk 2,200]

13 minutes ago, kallend said:

But it certainly recognized a myth as reality,  even if no afterlife was involved.

What myth was that? Communism did not work because it concentrated too much power into too few hands and failed to provide individual motivation.

[gowlerk 2,200]

14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Out of curiosity, do any of these images, in your opinion, depict Jesus as he was?

 

You left out the REAL Jesus. The one with America's colors.

[normiss 801]

Maybe this is where those that need Jebus in their lives should have these types of discussions

[gowlerk 2,200]

8 minutes ago, normiss said:

Maybe this is where those that need Jebus in their lives should have these types of discussions

This development probably signals the end times.

[wmw999 2,452]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

You left out the REAL Jesus. The one with America's colors.

When my husband and I visited Italy a few years ago, we called this Our Lord of the Quinceañera

Wendy P.

[gowlerk 2,200]

3 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

When my husband and I visited Italy a few years ago, we called this Our Lord of the Quinceañera

Wendy P.

He does look very lovely in that dress.

[JerryBaumchen 1,365]

3 hours ago, normiss said:

Maybe this is where those that need Jebus in their lives should have these types of discussions

Hi Mark,

Just another scam to get the money.  Think Franklin Graham.

Jerry Baumchen