Christians don’t believe in Democracy

[jaybird18c 24]

Just now, gowlerk said:

I fully understand that some orders could be illegal as well as immoral. And that service members are under an obligation to know the difference. Let me re-phrase my statement to say that it is not the soldiers place to question if the "special military action" or whatever term the USA uses instead of a war declaration is justified or not.

Ok. Understood. You're talking about a person currently obligated to serve (serving out a contractual enlistment). And they have to participate in a war which might be morally questionable. And that they have no choice but to fight alongside others. And assuming we're not talking about following unlawful orders. Yes. I agree. That person must follow orders, must go to war, and fight. And that person would be justified.

[jaybird18c 24]

2 minutes ago, normiss said:

Looks like the discussion is moving to a steady stream of condescending, insulting responses now.

The standard of christians when their nonsense is refused. 

 

You're not getting your feelings hurt again. Are you? 

[jaybird18c 24]

13 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I fully understand that some orders could be illegal as well as immoral. And that service members are under an obligation to know the difference. Let me re-phrase my statement to say that it is not the soldiers place to question if the "special military action" or whatever term the USA uses instead of a war declaration is justified or not.

You didn't answer my question. Have you ever served in a combat unit?

[normiss 801]

3 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

You're not getting your feelings hurt again. Are you? 

You're giving yourself too much credit.

The christian message is more laughable than emotional. Easily dismissed.

[gowlerk 2,200]

1 minute ago, jaybird18c said:

You didn't answer my question. Have you ever served in a combat unit?

No. I thought the question was rhetorical. I have never been a member or been involved in a military service.

[JoeWeber 2,722]

38 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

I don't know any American Christian who would EVER want a theocracy.

No kidding. So what will the rules to live by be after the rapture? 

 

39 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

I starting to think you're not smart enough to distinguish between a Christian and a radical muslim terrorist

I never mind a nice personal attack, especially in pursuit of a straw man. Maybe I am smart enough to not be able to distinguish between a radical Christian terrorist and a radical Muslim terrorist, however. 

On a side note, it's considered both poor form and a tell to capitalize the name of ones own religion and not the name of any other.

[jaybird18c 24]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

No. I thought the question was rhetorical. I have never been a member or been involved in a military service.

It just helps me to put your questioning into perspective. You're likely relying on a grossly oversimplified understanding based on movies you've seen.

[jaybird18c 24]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

No kidding. So what will the rules to live by be after the rapture? 

 

I never mind a nice personal attack, especially in pursuit of a straw man. Maybe I am smart enough to not be able to distinguish between a radical Christian terrorist and a radical Muslim terrorist, however. 

On a side note, it's considered both poor form and a tell to capitalize the name of ones own religion and not the name of any other.

I'm not at all concerned with conforming to your "poor form" group think.

[gowlerk 2,200]

4 minutes ago, normiss said:

The christian message is more laughable than emotional.

The subject can bring up many emotions for people. Religious beliefs are very personal. Proselytizers like Jay seem to feel they are bringing enlightenment to us because they are so personally committed. I suppose they forget or don't realize that we have all heard these messages before, have given them very deep thought and have not come to our conclusions lightly. I doubt he can see just how insulting it is to be told that we are not worthy and therefore are going to be punished for eternity while he marches on to glory. It's okay for him to believe that, and in a forum like this it is not wrong for him to do it. Deep down I truly believe that behavior like this is more driven by the need to convince himself or his righteousness and worthiness. Even the saints have had to deal with their doubts one way or another. And there clearly is a world full of reasons to doubt.

[gowlerk 2,200]

7 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

movies you've seen

I rarely watch movies or TV. I read a lot. 

[JoeWeber 2,722]

1 minute ago, jaybird18c said:

I'm not at all concerned with conforming to your "poor form" group think.

I probably shouldn't but here goes, if you are willing, how did you come by your saved again faith? Francis Collins, for example, started by talking to a hospital patient and thinking about religion and had his epiphany coming across a frozen waterfall while hiking in the Cascades. I guess there were three ice falls that he decided represented the Holy Trinity and from there on he was saved. I think that's the story. What is yours?

[jaybird18c 24]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

The subject can bring up many emotions for people. Religious beliefs are very personal. Proselytizers like Jay seem to feel they are bringing enlightenment to us because they are so personally committed. I suppose they forget or don't realize that we have all heard these messages before, have given them very deep thought and have not come to our conclusions lightly. I doubt he can see just how insulting it is to be told that we are not worthy and therefore are going to be punished for eternity while he marches on to glory. It's okay for him to believe that, and in a forum like this it is not wrong for him to do it. Deep down I truly believe that behavior like this is more driven by the need to convince himself or his righteousness and worthiness. Even the saints have had to deal with their doubts one way or another. And there clearly is a world full of reasons to doubt.

Here's what I see here. Your reference to "us" in your comments. As if it's me against the group. Maybe you think you speak for everybody? I have an opinion just like everybody else here. I post that opinion just like everybody else here. I don't mean to disturb "the collective," if that's what it is. Heck, or maybe I do. That's what anyone risks when they're in a discussion. That someone or even lots of people might disagree and say they're wrong. That's fine. Believe what you want. But if you don't want to discuss it or have it challenged, why are you here? As far as the tone, I've had to deal with quite a bit of condescension from multiple people here. Pardon me if I start to shoot back a bit. It's all good though. I generally enjoy the discussion.

[olofscience 480]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

and from there on he was saved.

This is the really weird thing, people calling themselves "saved".

 

It sounds like a courtroom defendant calling himself "acquitted". It's not his call to make - but in this case, the judge is silent (and probably doesn't exist).

[jaybird18c 24]

2 minutes ago, olofscience said:

This is the really weird thing, people calling themselves "saved".

 

It sounds like a courtroom defendant calling himself "acquitted". It's not his call to make - but in this case, the judge is silent (and probably doesn't exist).

Yes! It is in fact referencing a legal standing! And you are correct! It is NOT the defendant's call to make! It's the Judge's call! If the word "saved" sound weird to you, I'll start using terms like "Propitiation," "Justification," Sanctification," etc.

[gowlerk 2,200]

2 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Here's what I see here. Your reference to "us" in your comments. As if it's me against the group. Maybe you think you speak for everybody? I have an opinion just like everybody else here. I post that opinion just like everybody else here. I don't mean to disturb "the collective," if that's what it is. Heck, or maybe I do. That's what anyone risks when they're in a discussion. That someone or even lots of people might disagree and say they're wrong. That's fine. Believe what you want. But if you don't want to discuss it or have it challenged, why are you here? As far as the tone, I've had to deal with quite a bit of condescension from multiple people here. Pardon me if I start to shoot back a bit. It's all good though. I generally enjoy the discussion.

Us in this case is specifically normiss, who I was replying to, and myself. But yes the majority here do not want to be preached to over and over. We already have heard the "good news" and are more than a little tired of it. I fully support you right to keep on keeping on. Expect condescending comments to continue since you insist on continuing the nonsensical blather. We would do the same for anyone trying to teach us the wonders of any other religion. No one is picking on you because you are Christian. It is because you spread untruths and swear they are true.

[jaybird18c 24]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

But yes the majority here do not want to be preached to over and over. We already have heard the "good news" and are more than a little tired of it. I fully support you right to keep on keeping on. 

So you must be "their" Group Leader. I'll start showing more respect! And thank you for allowing me to "keep on keeping on." I appreciate that!

[gowlerk 2,200]

9 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

So you must be "their" Group Leader. I'll start showing more respect! And thank you for allowing me to "keep on keeping on." I appreciate that!

On which of my words are you basing that statement? Note, words matter. I am not "allowing" you anything. I stated that I "support your right". 

[jaybird18c 24]

Just now, gowlerk said:

On which of my words are you basing that statement? Note, words matter. I am not "allowing" you anything. I stated that I "support your right". 

I was being sarcastic.

[gowlerk 2,200]

1 minute ago, jaybird18c said:

I was being sarcastic.

I was replying to the sarcasm as I see fit. 

[JoeWeber 2,722]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

On which of my words are you basing that statement? Note, words matter. I am not "allowing" you anything. I stated that I "support your right". 

If words mattered they'd have closed the book on page one.

[kallend 2,027]

13 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Jesus Christ is the foundation of the Church. “For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 3:11).

Quoting bible verses in an attempt to give credibility to your misplaced beliefs in neolithic myths doesn't help your case one iota.  In fact it is rather pathetic.

[jaybird18c 24]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

If words mattered they'd have closed the book on page one.

Who is "they?"

[gowlerk 2,200]

1 minute ago, kallend said:

Quoting bible verses in an attempt to give credibility to your misplaced beliefs in neolithic myths doesn't help your case one iota.  In fact it is rather pathetic.

The Bible is true. It says so right in the Bible.

[jaybird18c 24]

1 minute ago, kallend said:

Quoting bible verses in an attempt to give credibility to your misplaced beliefs in neolithic myths doesn't help your case one iota.  In fact it is rather pathetic.

Thank you for your opinion.

[jaybird18c 24]

4 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The Bible is true. It says so right in the Bible.

What specifically are you talking about?