Christians don’t believe in Democracy

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 8/31/2023 at 7:13 PM, jakee said:

Yeah… the thing is Only a couple of days ago you were very keen on us knowing that you “once also did not believe”. you brought it up because you want us to know that you get where we’re coming from and you’ve been there too. But you haven’t. You were never an atheist. You always believed. You are not and were not ever the same. If you think (as you appear to, and as many of you cohorts do) that you’re just further along the same sliding scale of attitudes to Jesus as we are, you couldn’t be more wrong.

 

 

I should have worded that differently. I differentiate knowing from belief, in the context of what we're speaking. Belief implies obedience. Knowledge is just that. In that sense, I once did not believe. I have always had a sense, as I shared in my personal testimony earlier, that there must be a God. However, I was absolutely not obedient to that knowledge. As a matter of fact, I suppressed it. I did not "believe" in the biblical sense. There is "Common Grace" and "Special Grace" which exist with God. "Common Grace" allows for the rain, if you will, to fall on both non-believers and believers alike, including enjoyment of creation, restraint by God on the effect of sin, delayed judgment, general knowledge of "a god," etc.) "Special Grace" is specific, in the knowledge of the person and work of Jesus Christ described in scripture. It demands not just knowledge, but obedience.

Edited August 31, 2023 by jaybird18c

[wmw999 2,537]

  On 8/31/2023 at 7:05 PM, jaybird18c said:

I expanded on my thought above. Sorry about that. I believe decisions should be made democratically within our representative form of government. If you look at it the other way around, there are states in which very non-Christian principals are applied and "forced on believers," as you put it. That's America. Vote wisely!

How does allowing something that you don't believe in, and don't plan to do yourself, "force" it on you? Or is it the tolerance htat's forced?

Wendy P.

[JerryBaumchen 1,439]

  On 8/31/2023 at 7:53 PM, wmw999 said:

How does allowing something that you don't believe in, and don't plan to do yourself, "force" it on you? Or is it the tolerance htat's forced?

Wendy P.

Hi Wendy,

This is exactly how I feel.  While I am pro-abortion ( I donate to NARAL every year ), I have never told someone to get an abortion.  Although, there are times when I think I should have.  :)

I am a 'live & let live' type of person.

Jerry Baumchen

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 8/31/2023 at 7:53 PM, wmw999 said:

How does allowing something that you don't believe in, and don't plan to do yourself, "force" it on you? Or is it the tolerance htat's forced?

Wendy P.

I was just using the same verbiage as Kallend in my response about representative government. He used the word imposed.

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:04 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Wendy,

This is exactly how I feel.  While I am pro-abortion ( I donate to NARAL every year ), I have never told someone to get an abortion.  Although, there are times when I think I should have.  :)

I am a 'live & let live' type of person.

Jerry Baumchen

If you want to live in a state which allows killing babies, move to Kalifornia. Problem solved...for you, that is. Not so much for the baby.

[normiss 851]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:08 PM, jaybird18c said:

If you want to live in a state which allows killing babies, move to Kalifornia. Problem solved...for you, that is. Not so much for the baby.

No states allow the killing of babies silly.

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:14 PM, normiss said:

No states allow the killing of babies silly.

Dehumanizing people makes torturing and killing them much easier, as demonstrated by the Nazis and many others. 

[gowlerk 2,249]

  On 8/31/2023 at 7:41 PM, jaybird18c said:

There is "Common Grace" and "Special Grace" which exist with God. "Common Grace" allows for the rain, if you will, to fall on both non-believers and believers alike, including enjoyment of creation, restraint by God on the effect of sin, delayed judgment, general knowledge of "a god," etc.) "Special Grace" is specific, in the knowledge of the person and work of Jesus Christ described in scripture. It demands not just knowledge, but obedience.

I really love this about theology. Complicated explanations about simple things. Theologians and lawyers, kill them all. Kill them tonight. Unless it's my lawyer and she gets me off on a technicality. 

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:20 PM, gowlerk said:

I really love this about theology. Complicated explanations about simple things. Theologians and lawyers, kill them all. Kill them tonight. Unless it's my lawyer and she gets me off on a technicality. 

Who says that? You? There you go, generalizing again.

[gowlerk 2,249]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:22 PM, jaybird18c said:

There you go, generalizing again.

Sez the guy who just spouted off about baby killers. Dehumanizing people is sometimes called "basic training".

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by gowlerk

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:23 PM, gowlerk said:

Sez the guy who just spouted off about baby killers. Dehumanizing people is sometimes called "basic training".

 

Is it generalizing to say that people who commit murder are in fact murderers?

Edited August 31, 2023 by jaybird18c

[JoeWeber 2,825]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:08 PM, jaybird18c said:

If you want to live in a state which allows killing babies, move to Kalifornia. Problem solved...for you, that is. Not so much for the baby.

Amen. Better to live in a state that allows killing mothers in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[gowlerk 2,249]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:38 PM, jaybird18c said:

Is it generalizing to say that people who commit murder are in fact murderers?

There you go with more of the right wing lies promoted by some parts of Christianity. Abortion is a different thread.

[wmw999 2,537]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:38 PM, jaybird18c said:

Is it generalizing to say that people who commit murder are in fact murderers?

How many funerals for pregnancies that didn't reach the point of showing have you been to? Ever tried to buy a casket for a missed period?  Are you in favor of someone whose brain isn't functioning having life support withdrawn? These are some (ill)logical extensions of considering the moment of conception to be a full-up human being. Are you in favor of supporting the babies of someone who was impregnated because birth control failed? Or is it just their tough luck, and women should keep their legs together -- while men call them prick teases.

Wendy P.

[gowlerk 2,249]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:19 PM, jaybird18c said:

Dehumanizing people makes torturing and killing them much easier, as demonstrated by the Nazis and many others. 

Full Godwin now?

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:46 PM, wmw999 said:

How many funerals for pregnancies that didn't reach the point of showing have you been to? Ever tried to buy a casket for a missed period?  Are you in favor of someone whose brain isn't functioning having life support withdrawn? These are some (ill)logical extensions of considering the moment of conception to be a full-up human being. Are you in favor of supporting the babies of someone who was impregnated because birth control failed? Or is it just their tough luck, and women should keep their legs together -- while men call them prick teases.

Wendy P.

I guess however you have to justify it to sit right with your conscience.

[jakee 1,563]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:38 PM, jaybird18c said:

Is it generalizing to say that people who commit murder are in fact murderers?

So are you a murderer?

[gowlerk 2,249]

  On 8/31/2023 at 9:01 PM, jakee said:

So are you a murderer?

C'mon Jakee. You know full well that if you are a soldier and sanctioned by your government then killing the enemy is not murder. It is "justified killing". I guess however you have to justify it to sit right with your conscience.

[JoeWeber 2,825]

  On 8/31/2023 at 8:58 PM, jaybird18c said:

I guess however you have to justify it to sit right with your conscience.

That's rich given the rather loose grip Creationism has on biology.

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 8/31/2023 at 9:09 PM, JoeWeber said:

That's rich given the rather loose grip Creationism has on biology.

Opinions are like assholes…like the one you evolved.

[wmw999 2,537]

Jay, it looks like you’re getting angry. I’m not an atheist, and those were honest questions I asked. Because those are real-world situations I described. Not all of them have applied to me (which, if any, is my business). But they all happen.

Wendy P. 

[JoeWeber 2,825]

  On 8/31/2023 at 9:15 PM, jaybird18c said:

Opinions are like assholes…like the one you evolved.

When you hold that a pin head size assemblage of cells a day old is a baby and removing it is murder you are holding an empty bag, in the evolved opinion of this asshole.

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 8/31/2023 at 9:20 PM, JoeWeber said:

When you hold that a pin head size assemblage of cells a day old is a baby and removing it is murder you are holding an empty bag, in the evolved opinion of this asshole.

What kind of DNA is there?

[JoeWeber 2,825]

  On 8/31/2023 at 9:19 PM, wmw999 said:

Jay, it looks like you’re getting angry. I’m not an atheist, and those were honest questions I asked. Because those are real-world situations I described. Not all of them have applied to me (which, if any, is my business). But they all happen.

Wendy P. 

Indeed he is, but given his extended and timely willingness to stay engaged here -and take a few shots along the way- I respectfully request that a little extra wiggle room be afforded. 

[jakee 1,563]

  On 8/31/2023 at 9:05 PM, gowlerk said:

C'mon Jakee. You know full well that if you are a soldier and sanctioned by your government then killing the enemy is not murder. It is "justified killing". I guess however you have to justify it to sit right with your conscience.

You mean, just like legal abortion isn’t murder? I wonder if Jay realises it works both ways.