Christians don’t believe in Democracy

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

40 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

...As to the influence of Christianity in America - if we look at the trendline of Christianity in the US, it has gone from ~84% thirty years ago to less than half today. Some see that as an erosion and a threat on democracy; others a blessing. Those who see it as a threat and use it as a political tool aren't doing the US any favors...

I think one of the reasons for the rising Christian Nationalism is that decline.

As they lose their majority, they lose power. 
They see 'other people' becoming more powerful. Those 'other people' are 'forcing their views' on Christians.

You know, forcing all those Christian men to marry other men. Forcing all those Christian women to have abortions (we really need a 'sarcasm' font).

This isn't terribly different from how all the racists reacted when Obama was elected President.

They couldn't handle the fact that their power was waning and lashed out.

They couldn't handle the loss of privilege and did whatever they could to hang onto it.

While it's clear their power is fading and their time is limited, the real question is how much damage they will be able to do before they're done and how long (if ever) it will take to fix it.

The 'funniest' part about it is how these people are basically 'selling their souls' to hang onto power. 
They latched onto Trump, Flynn, and a host of others who have no morals, no religious values, no nothing other than a hunger for power.
If they think that putting those people into power will get them what they want (in the long term), then they are very foolish.

The parallels with Nazi Germany are numerous. And frightening.

They don't see it, of course, but the reality is that by the end, the Nazis just wanted power. They'd imprison and murder ANYONE who stood in their way.

These "Christian Nationalists" (who, by the way, are a fairly small minority of total Christians) will be used, tossed aside, trampled in the process and then wonder what happened.

[RonD1120 62]

On 11/5/2022 at 6:56 PM, JoeWeber said:

Except as a way to erode democracy. The monotheistic religious pine for their King; forms of government designed by people are simple vehicles not the end game. And that’s why we are already screwed.

Good troll!

The monotheistic government of Jesus Christ will come after the rapture and the defeat of Gog and Magoog at the start of His millennial reign.

I will be there and look forward to the excitement of not just good but excellent living.

In the mean time we are content to deal with the bs of current politics as best we can. Remember, the U.S. Government has two heads on the same snake body.

[billvon 3,058]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

What I am claiming is that if democracy falters or fails in America Christianity will be a cause.

Now that is a much more reasonable way to say that!  Yes, I agree - if that happens there will be a lot of causes, but one of them will likely be right wing Christian extremists.

Quote

 What I am saying is that complete belief in a supreme being whose apocalyptic return is nigh and hoped, and is considered to be the highest authority in the cosmos, is at direct odds with the fundamental precepts of democracy.

Agreed there as well.  Most Christians do not believe that in my experience.

[JoeWeber 2,807]

1 hour ago, RonD1120 said:

Good troll!

The monotheistic government of Jesus Christ will come after the rapture and the defeat of Gog and Magoog at the start of His millennial reign.

I will be there and look forward to the excitement of not just good but excellent living.

In the mean time we are content to deal with the bs of current politics as best we can. Remember, the U.S. Government has two heads on the same snake body.

Excellent living as in not at the end of a dirt road up in the hills of BF Georgia? Or maybe bingo every night and everyone wins? Unlimited cake?

[GeorgiaDon 379]

I have a sister-in-law who is a pretty extreme fundamentalist Catholic.  She is determined to "save" us (my wife and I) so she constantly sends us "literature" or gets us subscriptions to some very extreme magazines (although we have told her over and over to stop).  A few years ago one of these magazines had a long article about how the whole concept of democracy is un-Christian, as the Bible only talks about kings.  Elections, and political representation, is nowhere to be found.  So (the reasoning goes) God would give us a king, and participating in elections (or even worse running for office) is actively resisting God's plan.  According to the author, voting is a serious sin verging on blasphemy.

I don't think most Christians actually think in those terms.  However it is true that the biblical world view is very authoritarian, with God (or her representative monarch) setting all the important parameters of society.  I do think that overall strong Christian (or other religious) belief predisposes people to being comfortable with authoritarian social structures, and leads them away from being tolerant of people with different priorities or values.

Also many religious customs or edicts, although they are presented as commandments from on high, really serve to make it easy to distinguish between believers and non-believers, or to mark people as belonging to a specific tribe.  Circumcision for example made it impossible for Jewish males to "pass" as Romans in any conflict, as Romans abhorred the practice.  In some circles today supporting the "wrong" candidate for office is seen the same way.   The discussion is not about ideas or policies, it is about tribes.

 

[Stumpy 284]

19 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

to some very extreme magazines (although we have told her over and over to stop

You could return the favour - I'm sure you could think of some subscriptions that would "enlighten" her ?

 

[JoeWeber 2,807]

22 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

I don't think most Christians actually think in those terms.

No doubt, but it's the behaving in that way I notice.

[kallend 2,099]

4 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I had a Sicilian aunt who was old-school Democrat and Roman Catholic her whole life. She had an amazing capacity to wear each hat separately. Church was church and politics wasn't.  

Could she believe in six impossible things before breakfast, like the White Queen?

[BIGUN 1,393]

53 minutes ago, kallend said:

Could she believe in six impossible things before breakfast, like the White Queen?

There was a reason to get snarky about my aunt? 

[RonD1120 62]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Excellent living as in not at the end of a dirt road up in the hills of BF Georgia? Or maybe bingo every night and everyone wins? Unlimited cake?

I will be in Jerusalem.

[wmw999 2,514]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

There was a reason to get snarky about my aunt? 

Kallend can’t eat breakfast without snark

Wendy P. 

[murps2000 86]

47 minutes ago, RonD1120 said:

I will be in Jerusalem.

Will there be any animals & plants there or just people?

[JoeWeber 2,807]

1 hour ago, murps2000 said:

Will there be any animals & plants there or just people?

Clothes? Seems to me that’s a potential big draw. Well, unless everyone is as old as Ron the maybe hotel grade robes would be in order.

[JerryBaumchen 1,422]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Clothes? Seems to me that’s a potential big draw. Well, unless everyone is as old as Ron the maybe hotel grade robes would be in order.

Hi Joe,

Easy, I'm Ron's age.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,807]

3 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

I will be in Jerusalem.

Have you scheduled flights, they're a booger last minute these days? Or are you planning to arrive visa free, like being transported on Star Trek?

[gowlerk 2,241]

3 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

I will be in Jerusalem.

I will be in the land of Oz with the wizard. And Dorothy.

Edited November 8, 2022 by gowlerk

[murps2000 86]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Clothes? Seems to me that’s a potential big draw. Well, unless everyone is as old as Ron the maybe hotel grade robes would be in order.

I was honestly just asking because I was wondering how it all was supposed to work. Like do you get to see your old pets, and do you eat? But I guess if I studied scripture I would already know.

[gowlerk 2,241]

29 minutes ago, murps2000 said:

I was honestly just asking because I was wondering how it all was supposed to work. Like do you get to see your old pets, and do you eat? But I guess if I studied scripture I would already know.

It's easy. Whatever you need will be there. 20 or 30 virgins or your mother's arms. Whatever your fantasy is it will be there at side of your God. She will provide.

[murps2000 86]

36 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It's easy. Whatever you need will be there. 20 or 30 virgins or your mother's arms. Whatever your fantasy is it will be there at side of your God. She will provide.

When you put that way it makes it seem as if the endgame for all religions is actually based on greed. A quest for paradise for one’s self. Interesting how some devout believers are so certain that they will attain it. Ron doesn’t even throw in a “god willing” just to hedge his bet. Doesn’t Mathew 23:12 touch on this type of attitude?

[gowlerk 2,241]

31 minutes ago, murps2000 said:

When you put that way it makes it seem as if the endgame for all religions is actually based on greed.

The other way to look at it is that the reward is to be with God. But seriously, it is either heaven or it is hell. Is it greedy to want one over the other? 

[murps2000 86]

7 hours ago, gowlerk said:

The other way to look at it is that the reward is to be with God. But seriously, it is either heaven or it is hell. Is it greedy to want one over the other? 

Now you’re making me feel greedy for not wanting to be a part of some deity’s twisted cosmic game.

[wmw999 2,514]

Some other Chrisitan traditions define heaven as a connectedness to God and the divine (and they're OK with its not being real specific), and hell as a separateness and unawareness. It's the tradition I'm most comfortable with, but I kind of amend it to the thought that there are really three conditions; heaven is when you feel that connectedness, hell is when you want it and don't feel it (think Mother Teresa, who kept soldiering on even after she quit feeling that connectedness), and whatever, which is the lack of interest.

To me, religion is a placeholder for all the stuff that seems to be out there, that we don't yet understand, or have enough to measure, or may not even be aware of. It's a reminder not to be too arrogant what we know everything that's useful to know, without acknowledging that our worlds may be bounded in ways we're not aware of.

Not every "weird experience" or case of "foresight" may be luck or mental illness. I don't feel them, but I'm perfectly willing to accept that other people do. Just as how I feel about my medical treatment can affect its effectiveness -- that's why ayurveda and TCM still have adherents, and things that they actually do rather well. Because they try to involve the whole person, and not just isolate what some scientist thinks is the only relevant factor.

Wendy P.

[RonD1120 62]

15 hours ago, murps2000 said:

Will there be any animals & plants there or just people?

From what I understand the people will need plants and animals to eat.

[RonD1120 62]

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Have you scheduled flights, they're a booger last minute these days? Or are you planning to arrive visa free, like being transported on Star Trek?

I will be with the army of Christ. Remember this is post rapture.

[JoeWeber 2,807]

1 minute ago, RonD1120 said:

I will be with the army of Christ. Remember this is post rapture.

Are there uniforms or is everyone sort of mirage like or what. I am seriously asking you to describe what you will be like, if you can.