New altimeters: Atlas II and Atlas Juno

[sundevil777 102]

https://alti-2.com/product-category/sports/

I understand the Juno version, a little cheaper.

For the Atlas II, they don't make it clear what has changed.  Perhaps buttons with even greater tactile feel, and perhaps a better battery?  

They might have had to redesign it due to components becoming unavailable.

[Deimian 43]

Seems to me like new more "clicky" buttons, and USB-C instead of microUSB for charging.

[sundevil777 102]

11 hours ago, Deimian said:

Seems to me like new more "clicky" buttons, and USB-C instead of microUSB for charging.

The N3, which predated the Atlas, had applied the USB-C as an improvement over the original Neptune.  No change there.

The buttons on the N3 and Atlas already had a good tactile click feel to them, even with gloves. No improvement needed, so very little value to improving something already good.  

 

[sundevil777 102]

9 hours ago, sundevil777 said:

The N3, which predated the Atlas, had applied the USB-C as an improvement over the original Neptune.  No change there.

The buttons on the N3 and Atlas already had a good tactile click feel to them, even with gloves. No improvement needed, so very little value to improving something already good.  

 

Sorry for being so wrong about the type of power connection, I wasn't thinking right, the N3 doesn't use USB-C.

Edited December 15, 2022 by sundevil777

[anomie168 16]

I'm pretty disappointed to see the Juno selling for $359 USD and it's in a 3D printed case.  Altis have always been expensive, small market, all that - but at least the N3 had a metal case.  Knowing I could print the Juno case and the hardware would be a pittance compared the price, it almost offends me.

[sundevil777 102]

5 hours ago, anomie168 said:

I'm pretty disappointed to see the Juno selling for $359 USD and it's in a 3D printed case.  Altis have always been expensive, small market, all that - but at least the N3 had a metal case.  Knowing I could print the Juno case and the hardware would be a pittance compared the price, it almost offends me.

How sure are you it is printed?  The texture looks like an etched pattern from a mold rather than printing, and the very slight but very consistent groove that goes around the perimeter of the outer face makes me think it is a mold.  That's just my quick observation as someone with a lot of plastic injection parts experience but not so much printing.

Edited December 16, 2022 by sundevil777

[sundevil777 102]

5 hours ago, anomie168 said:

at least the N3 had a metal case

We should be open to the possible benefit of a non-metal case if it can be clearly shown they are tougher.  Plenty of plastics and composites can be quite tough - good at absorbing energy without damage.  Of course a metal case might look sturdy but actually be too thin to resist dents, and the plastic/composite might be more likely to fracture than dent.  Maybe the manufacturers are reluctant to highlight in terms of data regarding how fragile older designs have been, as all the manufacturers have made general claims about new designs being tougher without meaningful data.

We are left wondering whether the Altas 2 or Atlas Juno are tougher. 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by sundevil777

[anomie168 16]

14 hours ago, sundevil777 said:

How sure are you it is printed?  The texture looks like an etched pattern from a mold rather than printing, and the very slight but very consistent groove that goes around the perimeter of the outer face makes me think it is a mold.  That's just my quick observation as someone with a lot of plastic injection parts experience but not so much printing.

The top of the Juno - the part we see beside the display - appears to be printed on a carbon fiber print bed (the carbon weave pattern transfers over).  I can see layer lines on the side closest to the top section.  If you compare the Juno to the Atlas 2, which appears injection molded, you'll notice the Atlas has a ridge around the top of the screen and the Juno does not - this is because to 3D print that ridge that would also protect the screen from scuffs would make the surface finish terrible.   The description is a little misleading (IMO) :
" the Juno is housed in a water-resistant micro carbon fiber-filled case".  Micro carbon fiber-filled case is a marketing speak for a carbon fiber filled filament.  From there, I'm left wondering if its nylon, ASA or ABS.  Either way, I can buy a KG of CF nylon for about $100 cad and print 30 cases (assuming 30grams of material per case).  So they're selling an alti with a $3.00 case at a premium - again, in my opinion, I think its overpriced.  Full disclosure, I own and like my Alti-2 products.  I just think this is a case of cost cutting and not passing saving on.

the Mercury and Jade also appear to be in 3D printed cases.  I'll be honest - as someone who loves 3D printing, it is a prototyping technology.  I'm sad to see expensive Altis like this from a reputable company going backwards.

Edited December 16, 2022 by anomie168

[anomie168 16]

14 hours ago, sundevil777 said:

We should be open to the possible benefit of a non-metal case if it can be clearly shown they are tougher.  Plenty of plastics and composites can be quite tough - good at absorbing energy without damage.  Of course a metal case might look sturdy but actually be too thin to resist dents, and the plastic/composite might be more likely to fracture than dent.  Maybe the manufacturers are reluctant to highlight in terms of data regarding how fragile older designs have been, as all the manufacturers have made general claims about new designs being tougher without meaningful data.

We are left wondering whether the Altas 2 or Atlas Juno are tougher. 

 

I dont have a problem with a plastic case - my injection molded Quattro is excellent.  My issue is with selling a high end device in a 3D printed case - it is not optimal, IMO

[sundevil777 102]

2 hours ago, anomie168 said:

the Atlas 2, which appears injection molded

Their website says it is not injection molded plastic, "The machined metal case is crafted from aircraft aluminum."
Some aspects of the Juno case appear to be printed, but those very consistent grooves around the perimeter - I would not have thought a printer could do that, but they are ordinary for a injection mold.  

[anomie168 16]

12 minutes ago, sundevil777 said:

Their website says it is not injection molded plastic, "The machined metal case is crafted from aircraft aluminum."
Some aspects of the Juno case appear to be printed, but those very consistent grooves around the perimeter - I would not have thought a printer could do that, but they are ordinary for a injection mold.  

Yes, my mistake, aluminum still for the Atlas II.  As for the Juno, click the display image and blow it up.  You can see the 45* zigzag from the printer and it looks like they are printing with 2 perimeter walls.  If Alti-2 was proud of it being 3D printed, you'd think they would mention that.

[SethInMI 174]

2 hours ago, anomie168 said:

My issue is with selling a high end device in a 3D printed case - it is not optimal, IMO

Well there are a lot of production parts these days that are 3D printed, admittedly the metal sintered or lost wax cast 3D printing (Bugatti brake calipers, etc)

I agree this Juno looks 3D printed and by a process that has low resolution which I think is the bigger problem, it looks really cheap. I mean if it holds up I guess that is fine...but yeah, and extra few bucks for a nicer look would be good.

I suspect the Atlas is also 3D printed, but using a metal process. It doesn't look machined too many curved surfaces. 

[anomie168 16]

Here is a piece I printed in nylon CF, for comparison

[anomie168 16]

7 minutes ago, SethInMI said:

Well there are a lot of production parts these days that are 3D printed, admittedly the metal sintered or lost wax cast 3D printing (Bugatti brake calipers, etc)

I agree this Juno looks 3D printed and by a process that has low resolution which I think is the bigger problem, it looks really cheap. I mean if it holds up I guess that is fine...but yeah, and extra few bucks for a nicer look would be good.

I suspect the Atlas is also 3D printed, but using a metal process. It doesn't look machined too many curved surfaces. 

Yes, 3D printing has come a long way - but a metal sintered product vs the Juno are worlds apart in the cost of equipment to make and the end results.  I think there were some choices made that also make the Juno look less appealing to someone who understands 3D printing.  

[anomie168 16]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:10 PM, sundevil777 said:

The N3, which predated the Atlas, had applied the USB-C as an improvement over the original Neptune.  No change there.

The buttons on the N3 and Atlas already had a good tactile click feel to them, even with gloves. No improvement needed, so very little value to improving something already good.  

 

Maybe they had a second release of the N3, but my N3 and N3A both use microUSB, not USB C

[sundevil777 102]

1 hour ago, anomie168 said:

Maybe they had a second release of the N3, but my N3 and N3A both use microUSB, not USB C

Correct, I wasn't thinking right, corrected in a follow up post.
 

[sundevil777 102]

8 hours ago, anomie168 said:

Yes, my mistake, aluminum still for the Atlas II.  As for the Juno, click the display image and blow it up.  You can see the 45* zigzag from the printer and it looks like they are printing with 2 perimeter walls.  If Alti-2 was proud of it being 3D printed, you'd think they would mention that.

Quite right. It will be interesting to see and feel them for real.  We are still left wondering which is the better choice if durability of case and screen is the goal.

[mtgale00 1]

Alti-2 seems to be on a downward slide. As their military market share continues to evaporate, they're trying to revive their sport line. Unfortunately, it's to little to late. The Atlas Juno is their entrant in the race to the bottom. It might satiate the all to pervasive "hook a brother up" crowd, or it might not. 3D printing allows them to engage in an on demand production model but as most have noted the product looks cheap. The dual mode (audible/visual), menu and revised charging port keeps the Atlas II appealing but it's not enough at $429 when an arguably better Ares II is $399. It will be interesting to see the feedback over the next year related to all of their new products.

 

[sundevil777 102]

56 minutes ago, mtgale00 said:

Alti-2 seems to be on a downward slide. As their military market share continues to evaporate, they're trying to revive their sport line. Unfortunately, it's to little to late. The Atlas Juno is their entrant in the race to the bottom. It might satiate the all to pervasive "hook a brother up" crowd, or it might not. 3D printing allows them to engage in an on demand production model but as most have noted the product looks cheap. The dual mode (audible/visual), menu and revised charging port keeps the Atlas II appealing but it's not enough at $429 when an arguably better Ares II is $399. It will be interesting to see the feedback over the next year related to all of their new products.

 

399 is less than 429, but what else is better about an Ares?  The use of the 7-segment display is especially pathetic on an updated, more expensive than the Viso redesign.  The curved, narrower aspect ratio font of even the oldest Neptune/N3/Atlas is much better.  Doesn't the Ares still show the useless blur of the tens digit in freefall?  How could they not have that on their list of things to improve?  Did the user interface of the Ares improve over the Viso?  

Has anyone seen a Jade/Crimson audible?  Their printed cases are likely an indication of how rugged the Juno will be. How can they not be targeting the VOG as a competitor?  

New L&B and Alti-2 products aren't impressive compared to their previous generations.  Perhaps the most meaningful improvement has been durability, but that should have been there from the beginning - not offered in the next gen at increased cost.

[Led Santos 0]

I'm now using the ALTI-2 for a while, and man, I regret spending that much money on it.

First: there's no option to turn the unit off. It means that, even thought the battery is rechargable, you may find yourself without juice if you only jump on week-ends (like I do), and forget to charge it on Friday night.

Also, the good diferential for logbook options is crap as there's no way to add/edit the DropZones and Aircrafts. Also, no way to export the logbook from the ALTI-2 to my PC (unless you pay extra for Paralog software, which, as I read, it's not guaranted to work to upload data into ALTI-2).

Also, tried to contact Atlas a few times, without any reply..... :-(

[sundevil777 102]

22 hours ago, Led Santos said:

I'm now using the ALTI-2 for a while, and man, I regret spending that much money on it.

First: there's no option to turn the unit off. It means that, even thought the battery is rechargable, you may find yourself without juice if you only jump on week-ends (like I do), and forget to charge it on Friday night.

Also, the good diferential for logbook options is crap as there's no way to add/edit the DropZones and Aircrafts. Also, no way to export the logbook from the ALTI-2 to my PC (unless you pay extra for Paralog software, which, as I read, it's not guaranted to work to upload data into ALTI-2).

Also, tried to contact Atlas a few times, without any reply..... :-(

No need to recharge it so often, especially when new.  Might get better long term battery life also.

I've had them return emails about a couple different questions, but they took a day or two.  

The price is nuts, but an Ares does so much less.  Deals can still be had on the used market if you're patient and consider the N3 or Neptune 2.  The Skylife Vega/Sirius/Orion available from Rockskymart sure looks like an attractive option.