Reserve Damaged

[Gary73 10]

One of our jumpers had a dirty-low terminal CYPRES fire.  Reserve opened and flew okay, at least unitl the jumper hit a power-line-tower guy wire at about 5 feet.  Jumper was uninjured, but upon inspection, there were small/medium burns/tears on both the top and bottom skins of the center cell only.  Also a square foot or two of distressed fabric.  2002 FCI Maverick in 2002 Javelin.  Jumper reported that there were a lot of sticker bushes in the area, but these don't look like that kind of damage.  Any ideas?

[sfzombie13 324]

some of it looks like an electrical burn, but some is ripped.  did the canopy touch the live wires at all?  if not, may have been friction burn on part of it.  hard to say from a picture though. 

[gowlerk 2,190]

Probably from sliding along the guy wire. They have hardware with sharp edges along them. I like FCI reserves. I'm going to pack a Firelite today. (one size smaller than the Maverick)

[JerryBaumchen 1,360]

7 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

some of it looks like an electrical burn, but some is ripped.  did the canopy touch the live wires at all?  if not, may have been friction burn on part of it.  hard to say from a picture though. 

Hi 13,

A guywire is not energized.  

Jerry Baumchen

[riggerrob 643]

38 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi 13,

A guywire is not energized.  

Jerry Baumchen

Yes, but if you slide down it fast enough, it gets hot enough to melt nylon ... er ... the nylon gets hot enough to melt ... you know what I mean.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

4 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

Yes, but if you slide down it fast enough, it gets hot enough to melt nylon ... er ... the nylon gets hot enough to melt ... you know what I mean.

Right. 

Friction burns.

In addition to the tears from anything 'poking up' on the guy wires.

That's what I'm seeing with that damage..

But:

#1 - I'm no expert.

#2 - It's hard to tell from those pics.

[Gary73 10]

9 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

some of it looks like an electrical burn, but some is ripped.  did the canopy touch the live wires at all?  if not, may have been friction burn on part of it.  hard to say from a picture though. 

No indication of contact with live wires.

[Gary73 10]

7 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Probably from sliding along the guy wire. They have hardware with sharp edges along them. I like FCI reserves. I'm going to pack a Firelite today. (one size smaller than the Maverick)

It was a direct frontal impact with the guy wire, just a few feet above the ground.  And the damage was on both the top and bottom of the center cell.  No damage to the suspension lines.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Gary73
clarification

[gowlerk 2,190]

17 minutes ago, Gary73 said:

It was a direct frontal impact with the guy wire, just a few feet above the ground.  And the damage was on both the top and bottom of the center cell.  No damage to the suspension lines.

That pretty much makes perfect sense. Not much doubt that the frontal impact was with the centre and then the canopy was pulled down the guy wire. A few feet of that abuse was enough to do the damage to both the top and bottom because the centre cell was pushed together. The damage did not happen by magic and you know what it contacted. I don't really understand why there is any mystery about this.

[JerryBaumchen 1,360]

1 hour ago, riggerrob said:

Yes, but if you slide down it fast enough, it gets hot enough to melt nylon ... er ... the nylon gets hot enough to melt ... you know what I mean.

Hi Rob,

I made no mention of heat from any source.

Jerry Baumchen

[Gary73 10]

14 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

That pretty much makes perfect sense. Not much doubt that the frontal impact was with the centre and then the canopy was pulled down the guy wire. A few feet of that abuse was enough to do the damage to both the top and bottom because the centre cell was pushed together. The damage did not happen by magic and you know what it contacted. I don't really understand why there is any mystery about this.

By "full frontal", I meant that the wire was oriented top left to bottom right, as if he had tried to fly straight through a door with a wire strung from one corner to the opposite corner.  And he was only about three feet up when he hit it, so there was little or no sliding.  Also, some of the worst damage is 4 or 5 feet back from the leading edge, and is on both top and bottom, but the damaged areas don't line up..  So the "sliding down the wire" theory doesn't seem to explain what I'm seeing.

[gowlerk 2,190]

39 minutes ago, Gary73 said:

By "full frontal", I meant that the wire was oriented top left to bottom right, as if he had tried to fly straight through a door with a wire strung from one corner to the opposite corner.  And he was only about three feet up when he hit it, so there was little or no sliding.  Also, some of the worst damage is 4 or 5 feet back from the leading edge, and is on both top and bottom, but the damaged areas don't line up..  So the "sliding down the wire" theory doesn't seem to explain what I'm seeing.

The canopy wrapped around the wire. It had to, the energy of his motion had to go somewhere. Only 3 feet up still means it slid down the wire, and it slid down with both weight and speed pulling it. Fly a canopy at 15 to twenty miles an hour forward speed and whatever down with the weight of a human probably a couple hundred pounds into a 1/4 inch piece of steel wire under tension and what do YOU think is going to happen? In any case the proof is right there in the hands of whoever is taking the picture. The damaged areas don't match up perfectly because it is nylon fabric and it is flexible. 

[sfzombie13 324]

16 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi 13,

A guywire is not energized.  

Jerry Baumchen

none that i have seen are.  that's the reason i asked if it made contact with the live wires.  if it were me, and i still questioned it, i would go run my hand down the wire without a glove very slowly.  that would answer all the questions and find the small broken pieces of cable that are sticking up that tore the canopy, and maybe even a small piece of nylon left behind when it melted as it slid down. 

[riggerrob 643]

Dear sfzombie13,

Sailors will tell you that you need a rag to inspect steel cables.

There are two methods of inspection.

First, you can slide the rag along the steel cable to check for broken strands.

Secondly, you can slide your bare hand down the cable, then use the rag to staunch your bleeding hand.

Hah!

Hah!

[sfzombie13 324]

nah, if you go slow you find them and they don't cut the skin.  you can't do it off a spool, only on cable that's tied off.  any kind of movement whatsoever and you'll bleed.  if you hear good you can wear gloves and go faster but i don't hear good.  i also carry band aids in the toolbox, glove compartment, and first aid kit.