Hypothetical Tandem situation

[stillalive 0]

Hypothetically,
Lets suppose a TI and an experienced jumper decide to do a Tandem fun jump (experienced jumper as the passenger). The TI for what ever reason is knocked unconscious on exit even before he can pull out the drogue.

What can the passenger do besides trying to keep stable and hoping the AAD fires at altitude?

It would seem to me like a waste of time just falling and waiting to get to AAD firing altitude to find out if its going to save you life or not.

I suspect pulling the drogue yourself is out of the question since it is far beyond the passengers reach.

The reserve handle is at best behind your left shoulder, not easy to touch, less long pull.

Is this correct? Can something be done?

Note I am talking about an experienced jumper being the passenger.
As a student all you could do is wait, or not?

------ LIFT ME UP!! ------

[mattjw916 2]

The expression, "If you go in without all your handles pulled, you are wrong!" comes to mind. There is no way on earth I would wait until the AAD fired if I _knew_ the drogue wasn't thrown and the TI was unresponsive. If I was the "student" on a tandem training jump I would at least make sure I had a cursory understanding of the operation of the handles of the particular tandem rig that my "instructor" was wearing since they are not all the same.

The odds of this scenario occuring are extremely slim though but in that extremely unlikely event I'd like to think I'd dump the reserve and hope for the best.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[billvon 2,998]

>What can the passenger do besides trying to keep stable and hoping
>the AAD fires at altitude?

1. Deploy the drouge. It's not hard; I did it during TI training as the passenger. It just takes a little flexibility.

2. Pull the drouge release. It's usually on the passenger's harness.

3. If there is a problem, cut away and pull the reserve. If the main has opened at all, then the handles will be just behind your ears, on the outboard sides of the harness webbing. Often, when experienced jumpers ride on front, the TM puts 'chicken handles' on the harness which extends those handles to the passenger's harness webbing.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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>What can the passenger do besides trying to keep stable and hoping
>the AAD fires at altitude?

1. Deploy the drouge. It's not hard; I did it during TI training as the passenger. It just takes a little flexibility.

2. Pull the drouge release. It's usually on the passenger's harness.

3. If there is a problem, cut away and pull the reserve. If the main has opened at all, then the handles will be just behind your ears, on the outboard sides of the harness webbing. Often, when experienced jumpers ride on front, the TM puts 'chicken handles' on the harness which extends those handles to the passenger's harness webbing.

I used to volunteer to be the test dummy for new tandem instructor candidates not yet allowed to take students. I had chicken handles and my own drogue release handle on all but one.

Of course, that one was the one I had to find the drogue release myself. In the saddle at 2500 feet, We were among the first canopies to land. The candidate failed.

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[stillalive 0]

Thanks for the answers!

It seemed to me quite unlikely for some one to be able to reach back and pull off E.P.´s while being a passenger.

Good to know it can be done!

------ LIFT ME UP!! ------

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Like Bill said. When I got my Vector rating I was required to front ride and perform all the functions from there. It's not too hard to get to the drogue and the drogue releases are always where you can get to them.

[LawnDart21 0]

"Chicken Handles" were created to give an experienced passenger the ability to pull the cutaway and the reserve.

I do alot of passenger rides on the front, and when I am "wearing my instructor" on my back, I look at them as not much more than a breathing 230lb parachute system, of which, if need be, I have a tremendous amount of control over.

They have things to do on the jump, and in the absense of them doing what they are supposed to do, I have access to do all the same things I would do on a normal skydive to save my life.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[rehmwa 2]

OK, first tap the sitflyer hanging on your harness to GO AWAY

2nd......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AggieDave 6]

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2. Pull the drouge release. It's usually on the passenger's harness.

Bill,

Not to nitpick but I would say "its generally easily accessible to the student." The current trend in design and moveable handle placement has the student drogue release placed on the instructor's right leg strap to place the handle where a BOC handle would roughly be on a student.



As for the rest of it. You can reach all the handles, I would hope that if you're an experienced jumper you would chat with the TI and learn the correct sequence to pull the handles in and where they are located. On some systems you really do not want to pull them out of order.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[piisfish 140]

I'd go for the reserve as a passenger.... Must check at opening of the season if that would be feasible for me in a NON JUMP situation.

I know a TI wo had the passenger pull on the cutaway as she was trying to get the legstraps to hurt her less. And that was at around 1500ft

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[mdrejhon 8]

There's supposedly a real incident story somewhere about a tandem student saving his life. Anyone who can link to it?

[stratostar 5]

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OK, first tap the sitflyer hanging on your harness to GO AWAY

Your killing me, I just spit beer all over the keyboard.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[azureriders 0]

I went through Tandem progression which required fourt tandem jumps. I was (still am) a gear freak and can't learn enough about the things. By the time I made my fourth Tandem jump, the forth jump of any kind for that matter, I could locate all the handles on my TM while harnessed to him in the plane. Of course I never had any reason to try this in the air and doubt I would have had the experiece to do any good in the event that I did.

This includes the drouge, both drouge releases, cutaway, reserve, and the little ball hanging on the RSL to deploy the reserve on the right side. TM's, did I miss any?

[riggerrob 643]

I agree with billvon.
Every year I do two or three jumps strapped to the front of new or refreshing tandem instructors.
Even without "chicken handles" (or a drogue release handle strapped to my harness) I can deploy the drogue, pull at least one drogue release handle, the cutaway handle and reserve ripcord.

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, a tandem student did save a TI - who lost rack of altitude - over Perris Valley, California. The student had been trained to pull the drogue release.
This was long before AADs were mandatory on tandems.
That video was shown during several TI training courses.
Ask Artie Ptton for the original.

[tetra316 0]

When I got my tandem rating for strong, we are required to do one jump as the student and release the drogue. I was a bit worried about that and didn't think I would be able to reach it. However it was a stretch but very easy to pull and I'm only 5'2" with short arms too!

[diablopilot 2]

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I suspect pulling the drogue yourself is out of the question since it is far beyond the passengers reach.

Not as far as you think. Can and have thrown it from the front position.

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The reserve handle is at best behind your left shoulder, not easy to touch, less long pull.

Again, not so hard, especialy when motivated.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skydiverek 63]

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Yes, a tandem student did save a TI - who lost rack of altitude - over Perris Valley, California. The student had been trained to pull the drogue release.
This was long before AADs were mandatory on tandems.
That video was shown during several TI training courses.
Ask Artie Ptton for the original.

I think that this incident was described in on of those Strong newsletters:

http://www.strongparachutes.com/pages/newsletters.html

Bill Morrisey described it during the last PIA symposium. Basically, them tandem pair was in a drogue fall, the studend had an altimeter and access to drogue release. Once the student noticed the altimeter needle approching 1000 ft, he pulled ...

Read the "Passenger Ripcord on Tandem Jumps" thread here:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=541581#541581

[stillalive 0]

Thanx !!

------ LIFT ME UP!! ------

[atsaubrey 0]

This would never happen with me but i will say I would be pulling every handle with in reach and believe you me, this fat guy can get pretty flexible if need be.

"GOT LEAD?"

[kwmontreal 0]

I believe that when you get the package (TI canidates) from Strong there is an excellent (although dated!) video of that incident (or similar) of the passenger pulling at low altitude. I took the course last spring and it is what I was told while watching the video in the class. Its worth the watch for any TI, no matter whos rig your jumping.


Stay Safe.

Kent

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JUMP SAFE!