Playing Politics, The New GOP House

[JoeWeber 2,720]

42 minutes ago, kallend said:

You simply can't bring yourself to admit that Trump's gross incompetence is responsible for tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, in addition to the largest 4 year increase in the debt in history.

 

Pathetic!  Just plain pathetic.

You're right, I doubt I'm first to mention, but if we've learned anything it's that our fraternal myth adherents are unable to see past their brainwashing. Ironically, Coreece was right when he observed that a hiatus from here reveals the invariableness of here. Sad but true.

[billvon 2,991]

2 hours ago, Coreece said:

So to sum it up . . . .

 . . . democrats bring the deficit down, republicans drive it up.

[Coreece 190]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

You simply can't bring yourself to admit that Trump's gross incompetence is responsible for tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, in addition to the largest 4 year increase in the debt in history.

Pathetic!  Just plain pathetic.

Well that's not what we were talking about and now you're just mad that I won't entertain your troll-ish junk cognition.

My world doesn't revolve around Trump, and there are plenty of other threads where this has been discussed ad-nauseum.  I might even recommend "Trump, The Forgotten Person" thread that's been going on for 2 years so far.  Good luck with that.

[Coreece 190]

41 minutes ago, billvon said:

. . . democrats bring the deficit down, republicans drive it up.

Another hasty generalization.  You guys are just full of fallacy today, aren't you?

I try not to view the world with such a lop-sided perspective.

[billvon 2,991]

27 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Another hasty generalization. 

Well, I don't know if you'd call a trend over the past 40 years "hasty."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/29/tweets/republican-presidents-democrats-contribute-deficit/

[JoeWeber 2,720]

5 minutes ago, billvon said:

Well, I don't know if you'd call a trend over the past 40 years "hasty."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/29/tweets/republican-presidents-democrats-contribute-deficit/

Sure he would. Conservatism is a locked in view like religion. He'll never see, really, the fallacies.

[Coreece 190]

30 minutes ago, billvon said:

Well, I don't know if you'd call a trend over the past 40 years "hasty."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/29/tweets/republican-presidents-democrats-contribute-deficit/

John was specifically talking about the national debt, not the deficit.

[billvon 2,991]

5 minutes ago, Coreece said:

John was specifically talking about the national debt, not the deficit.

You do realize that deficits cause the debt, right?

[Coreece 190]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

You do realize that deficits cause the debt, right?

Sure, what I don't understand is why you guys have such a problem with me pointing out that 2020 was an outlier due to the pandemic.  I mean people on both sides keep cherry picking stats from that period as if it never happened. 

[kallend 2,027]

9 hours ago, Coreece said:

Well that's not what we were talking about and now you're just mad that I won't entertain your troll-ish junk cognition.

My world doesn't revolve around Trump, and there are plenty of other threads where this has been discussed ad-nauseum.  I might even recommend "Trump, The Forgotten Person" thread that's been going on for 2 years so far.  Good luck with that.

Consistently and predictably pathetic.

[kallend 2,027]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

You do realize that deficits cause the debt, right?

Apparently not, nor realize that Trump's denial, dithering, delay and general incompetence in handling the pandemic (all peviously documented)  increased the deficit.

[gowlerk 2,193]

9 hours ago, Coreece said:

John was specifically talking about the national debt, not the deficit.

Did your mother ever tell you where babies come from? Deficits are just like babies, we know where they come from and how to prevent them.

Edited January 22, 2023 by gowlerk

[Phil1111 1,149]

13 hours ago, billvon said:

 . . . democrats bring the deficit down, republicans drive it up.

True but lots of blame all around. Right now with full employment right after the covid deficit spending. The smart thing to do would be pay off debt.

The German and Swiss governments seem to be the only responsible ones.

[kallend 2,027]

15 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

True but lots of blame all around. Right now with full employment right after the covid deficit spending. The smart thing to do would be pay off debt.

The German and Swiss governments seem to be the only responsible ones.

There is only one US party that continues to push tax cuts for the wealthy despite evidence going back decades that they lead to increased deficits.

And Trump compounded that with his grossly incompetent handling of the pandemic.

And that, in a nutshell, is why billvon's statement is correct.

[gowlerk 2,193]

13 minutes ago, kallend said:

And that, in a nutshell, is why billvon's statement is correct.

Republicans drive the deficit and therefore the debt ever higher on purpose. They do it because cutting popular programs is unpopular so they can't survive politically if they do that. So instead they try to bankrupt the government to force what they want.

[Phil1111 1,149]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

There is only one US party that continues to push tax cuts for the wealthy despite evidence going back decades that they lead to increased deficits.

And Trump compounded that with his grossly incompetent handling of the pandemic.

And that, in a nutshell, is why billvon's statement is correct.

All of that is true. BUT the last responsible US government with regards to debt was Clinton:

While Obama had the financial crisis to deal with. He didn't tackle the deficit immediately. In addition Biden is now pouring deficit spending into an equation of record low unemployment. Which is causing his own FED to push up intrest rates.

[billvon 2,991]

11 hours ago, Coreece said:

Sure, what I don't understand is why you guys have such a problem with me pointing out that 2020 was an outlier due to the pandemic. 

?? I do not have a problem with that and I agree with you that it was an outlier.  That's why I listed the years that did NOT include the pandemic.

Were you replying to someone else?  Or do you guys always go for the hasty generalization?

[billvon 2,991]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Republicans drive the deficit and therefore the debt ever higher on purpose. They do it because cutting popular programs is unpopular so they can't survive politically if they do that. So instead they try to bankrupt the government to force what they want.

I heard a great description of this recently - the Two Santas.  From FDR's time on, democrats have led the charge for social programs.  From the Civilian Conservation Corps to Social Security to welfare reform to the ACA, democrats have been the ones pushing for government jobs/support/development programs.

Republicans initially tried to portray all of this as evil socialism (and still do, actually.)  Here on this forum we even see far-right Trump supporters like Ron supporting Social Security and Medicare because they benefit him directly.  Republicans realized that the public started seeing democrats as Santa Claus and republicans as Scrooge, trying to ruin Christmas by taking away Tiny Tim's crutches.

So rather than try to compete with them on social programs, republicans tried to be a different kind of Santa.  They threw their support behind programs that support big business (so they could be a Santa to someone else) and tried to woo people with tax cuts.  That way they could portray democrats as the real Scrooges, reaching into people's pockets to pay for this or that evil government program.

And of course the battle to be Santa continues to this day.

[Coreece 190]

6 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Did your mother ever tell you where babies come from? Deficits are just like babies, we know where they come from and how to prevent them.

All I'm saying is that the pandemic created a need for deficit spending that increased  debt at a rate that deviated from the 10 year upward trend, just as it did after 9/11 and again during the 2009 recession - and I felt the graph I posted illustrated that quite clearly.  So without the additional debt from the pandemic, it would've been more inline with that 10 year trend. (not that that would've been a good thing either, as it still falls way short of what Trump said he was going to do)

I honestly didn't mean for this to become a Rep vs Dem pissing contest nor was I arguing in favor of Trump's tax cuts or how he handled the crisis.  I've made it quite clear that I'm opposed to both parties, albeit for very different reasons.