When you need a runway, but can only find a helipad

[ryoder 1,590]

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,387]

40 minutes ago, ryoder said:

 

Hi Robert,

It would have been a lot more exciting in he had Luke Aikens in the pilot seat.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 2,218]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Robert,

It would have been a lot more exciting in he had Luke Aikens in the pilot seat.

Jerry Baumchen

And in a 182 instead of a Cub.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

I guess my first question would be:

What were the winds on that helipad?
The strength of the wind will make a HUGE difference.

I am impressed with that landing, but some of the Alaska STOL competitors are also very impressive. Depending on the wind conditions, some of them are stopped in a few feet. And back up in a similarly short distance.

 

[ryoder 1,590]

Remember the old joke about the not-so-bright pilot on final:

"Damn that runway is short! But look how wide it is!!!"

I was at one of Mike Mullins Helio Stallion boogies ($99 for all the jumps you can make). Winds were howling well above any reasonable jumping weather. But he was dumb enough to keep flying loads, and we were dumb enough to keep jumping.

He stopped landing aligned with the runway, and started landing across it. I remember one particular landing where his roll out was about 3-6 feet.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

34 minutes ago, ryoder said:

...He stopped landing aligned with the runway, and started landing across it. I remember one particular landing where his roll out was about 3-6 feet.

Yup. I've seen some of the Alaska competition videos, and they do stuff of that nature.
Again, depends a LOT on the winds.

Seeing them lock the brakes, power up and lift the tail off the ground before brake release, then be off the ground in VERY short distance is impressive.

[johnhking1 96]

Several years ago doing my biennial flight review, the instructor asked for a short field landing.  There was a lot of wind blowing straight down the runway.  I was flying a 1959 Cessna 172.  I dragged it in with power and touched down on the edge of the pavement and stood on the brakes and stopped before the numbers less than 100 feet.  I asked the instructor if that was short enough and he just laughed.  

[Stumpy 284]

On 3/16/2023 at 3:20 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

I guess my first question would be:

What were the winds on that helipad?
The strength of the wind will make a HUGE difference.

I am impressed with that landing, but some of the Alaska STOL competitors are also very impressive. Depending on the wind conditions, some of them are stopped in a few feet. And back up in a similarly short distance.

 

I've been watching the Mike Patey videos about how they built the red bull plane - one of the things they said was that they wanted it to be multi purpose, so this isn't a one trick STOL pony.

Underneath, its a carbon cub with as much weight stripped out as they could. They have replaced a number of panels with carbon to make it lighter, lighter tyres and stuff. The big changes were that they moved the fuel tank low down in the fuselage so the pilot could stand on the brakes without putting it on its nose - that fuel tank is only 7 Gallons and then they have a removable 25 gallon tank for transfers and airshows and what have you.

Oh - and they gave it a 50HP shot of NOS to get it safely back in the air

If you like engineering wizardry, all of Mike Pateys stuff is fascinating - his own previous plane builds, Draco and Scrappy are absolute monsters.

https://www.youtube.com/@MikePatey

This is the first Build video for the carbon cub

 

[lippy 918]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:20 AM, wolfriverjoe said:

What were the winds on that helipad?
The strength of the wind will make a HUGE difference.

 

That was my first thought, but there’s a windsock in the video and it seems to indicate damn near no wind; if anything, there’s a slight crosswind. 

[SethInMI 174]

this post ended up sending me down a 2+ hour rabbit hole of answering the questions "what is a carbon cub" and "what would I do with one" I learned that you can buy one new for 300k, or build from a kit for about half that. They climb quick and fly slow. I wondered what the point would be unless you lived in Alaska or Canada though.

[Stumpy 284]

13 hours ago, SethInMI said:

this post ended up sending me down a 2+ hour rabbit hole of answering the questions "what is a carbon cub" and "what would I do with one" I learned that you can buy one new for 300k, or build from a kit for about half that. They climb quick and fly slow. I wondered what the point would be unless you lived in Alaska or Canada though.

I've been down the same rabbit hole . Not sure that scotland is really their natural habitat though.
If you like that stuff - watch some of Trent Palmers videos - he has a thing called a kitfox that comes in cheaper too 

[Phil1111 1,149]

On 3/22/2023 at 7:56 AM, Stumpy said:

I've been watching the Mike Patey videos...

If you like engineering wizardry, all of Mike Pateys stuff is fascinating - his own previous plane builds, Draco and Scrappy are absolute monsters.

https://www.youtube.com/@MikePatey...

After watching about 100 of his videos I had to stop. I feel so inferior needing seven hours of sleep a night. Wasting time on SC. All of his other engineering accomplishments. Although his pool addition on his home made me feel as if he has cognitive disabilities of a sort.

I just love his machined double slotted flap/slat ribs on his latest full build. I think of those flaps/slats on a Carbon Cub.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Phil1111

[Phil1111 1,149]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:10 AM, wolfriverjoe said:

Yup. I've seen some of the Alaska competition videos, and they do stuff of that nature.
Again, depends a LOT on the winds.

Seeing them lock the brakes, power up and lift the tail off the ground before brake release, then be off the ground in VERY short distance is impressive.

I used to have a motorized hang glider. With winds about 15 kn on flat level ground. I could take off without stepping and land without taking a step. But gusting winds above that would become dangerous because it had such a low wing loading.

Same sort of idea as this one, but not identical.

[Stumpy 284]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

After watching about 100 of his videos I had to stop. I feel so inferior needing seven hours of sleep a night. Wasting time on SC. All of his other engineering accomplishments. Although his pool addition on his home made me feel as if he has cognitive disabilities of a sort.

I just love his machined double slotted flap/slat ribs on his latest full build. I think of those flaps/slats on a Carbon Cub.

yep totally. The level of detail of his engineering for even the smallest piece on an experimental airplane is bonkers.

[billvon 3,031]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:34 AM, ryoder said:

He stopped landing aligned with the runway, and started landing across it. I remember one particular landing where his roll out was about 3-6 feet.

Yep. 

I remember during one Lost Prairie boogie, Larry brought in the Porter and landed it at the brewery.  When he took off (in zero wind) it took about 4 aircraft lengths to get airborne.  That was with one pilot and almost no fuel of course.  We were taking bets and everyone guessed too long a distance.  (Except for one guy who said "ten feet" just to be funny.)

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

Yep. 

I remember during one Lost Prairie boogie, Larry brought in the Porter and landed it at the brewery.  When he took off (in zero wind) it took about 4 aircraft lengths to get airborne.  That was with one pilot and almost no fuel of course.  We were taking bets and everyone guessed too long a distance.  (Except for one guy who said "ten feet" just to be funny.)

Yup. The Porter is a VERY capable STOL aircraft.

The CIA operated "Air America" used them a lot in SE Asia during the Viet Nam conflict.

They'd cut runways into the jungle on the side of mountains.

Land uphill, so the slope cuts the landing distance. Unload/reload, spin around and take off downhill. Again, a very short distance.

[riggerrob 643]

On 3/28/2023 at 7:48 AM, Stumpy said:

I've been down the same rabbit hole . Not sure that scotland is really their natural habitat though.
If you like that stuff - watch some of Trent Palmers videos - he has a thing called a kitfox that comes in cheaper too 

Short Take Off and Landing competitions started in Valdez Alaska as a way for bush pilots to demonstrate and improve their skills for landing on rough, back country airstrips.

Now STOL competitions are featured events at airshows, the Reno Air Races, etc.

Try to think of STOL competitions as the "swooping" side of fixed wing airplanes because they can land close to the crowd, are easy for amateur spectators to guess the scores and they involve the ocassional crash. Those crashes are from so low and so slow that they rarely result int more that prop strikes and expensive engine overhauls.

Federal Air Regulations require a full engine tear-down and detailed inspection (X-ray crank-shafts, etc.) after every prop strike.