Head-down to belly - considerations?

[davidg39 0]

Hello everyone. I posted a question a couple weeks ago, and received some great advice from everyone.

I'm hoping to do this again!

My question is for the free flyers among you. When you go head down, sit-fly or feet down, and you've significantly increased your free fall speed - you obviously have to slow down before deployment to avoid a hard opening.

What's the best way to bring your speed back down to TV? I would assume belly, get flat and get big.

What is the effect on the body going from these high speeds back down to TV? Are there safety concerns about the process - i.e., can things go wrong?

Thanks in advance.

David

[pchapman 279]

Note that there isn't just one Terminal Velocity. You are at terminal velocity if in that particular steady body position you are not changing speed. So it might be 120 mph on your belly or 145 mph in sit, plus some increase with altitude due to reduced air density.

[Remster 30]

Here's an idea! I know, it's kinda out there, but it may work.

You jump at what is possibly the DZ with the best skydivers and coaches available in the world (no offence to any other DZ, but ya'all suck ). Why don't you ask any of the experienced folks in the hangar? I know any of the LO's would be happy to chat about this and your progression.

Remster

[Boogers 0]

davidg39

What's the best way to bring your speed back down to TV? I would assume belly, get flat and get big.

Yep.

Quote

What is the effect on the body going from these high speeds back down to TV? Are there safety concerns about the process - i.e., can things go wrong?

Not really. Even dramatic changes in speed like from a head-down speed dive at 250 mph to belly-flat at 120 mph, won't produced enough deceleration or drag to snap your arms off or anything. It feels kind of neat actually, experiencing that extra pressure.

And you can make the transition gradually if you want instead of suddenly.

[Arvoitus 1]

davidg39

What is the effect on the body going from these high speeds back down to TV? Are there safety concerns about the process - i.e., can things go wrong?

Thanks in advance.

David

If you're alone and if you're talking about the effect of deceleration from high speed to low speed I can't think of any major concerns. I've done a somersault from roughly 380 kph(235 mph) speed just to know what it feels like and didn't notice anything too bad, other then the fact I lost control very quickly and the somersault turned into somewhat violent tumbling.

The only real concern is that you really should make sure that you've slowed down sufficiently before deployment. I've had a hard opening from near 300 kph speed and the pain I felt is like nothing I've ever experienced before. Also broken ribs are annoying.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[BMichaeli 1]

to slow down safely the best way is to go to your back and back track for a little then flip back onto your belly. The speed change is so great that if you go straight to your belly the collisions that are possible are very disastrous. By going to your back your can slow down a little bit and see if anything is above you. it is the same reason you cork to your back or eventually your sit when free flying and not your belly. It is even more dramatic in the tunnel. If you go from your head to your belly in the tunnel you're going to hit something hard and it's going to be painful and not very fun.

[davidg39 0]

Excellent advice, everyone. Thanks again.

D

[Remster 30]

Really? You're recommending to a newbie with 30 odd jumps to do a back track, when they have no landmarks to keep a heading, and they already are swooshing around the sky on their "head down" solo?

This is why you need to talk to people in person.

Remster

[DougH 270]

I have a special trap door for me enormous testicles. I just drop them out the suit and it slows me down in seconds. Plus then I have my hands free to crack open a Mt. Dew. Extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeme!

This is an advanced move, and you need huge balls, so I would defer to Remster's advice to get REAL ADVICE!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Remster 30]

DougH

I have a special trap door for me enormous testicles. I just drop them out the suit and it slows me down in seconds. Plus then I have my hands free to crack open a Mt. Dew. Extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeme!

This is an advanced move, and you need huge balls, so I would defer to Remster's advice to get REAL ADVICE!

Anyone can get giant gonads now: http://www.neuticles.com/ultra.php

Remster

[DougH 270]

There goes feeling special.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[BMichaeli 1]

no i'm not recommending anything to him i'm simply answering the question he asked

Quote

What's the best way to bring your speed back down to TV?

He assumed

Quote

I would assume belly, get flat and get big.

which is wrong and dangerous and i hope that you do not do that. So i provided him with the answer in the hope that he doesn't go out and do something dangerous because he didn't know any better.

I don't think he should be on his back at 30 jumps but i also doubt that he is flying on his head at 30 jumps either. (and if i'm wrong about this sorry but still don't go trying this just yet) And yes speaking to someone at his local dz would give him a better picture of what to do and clear up any follow up questions he has.

[hckimball 0]

BMichaeli

to slow down safely the best way is to go to your back and back track for a little then flip back onto your belly. The speed change is so great that if you go straight to your belly the collisions that are possible are very disastrous. By going to your back your can slow down a little bit and see if anything is above you. it is the same reason you cork to your back or eventually your sit when free flying and not your belly. It is even more dramatic in the tunnel. If you go from your head to your belly in the tunnel you're going to hit something hard and it's going to be painful and not very fun.

according to your profile you're an AFF Instructor. are you serious? this is grossly terrible advice you're telling the OP. first of all, the original question is null because going from fast to slow you aren't going to hurt yourself. second, people do HD to Belly transitions in the tunnel all the time. go look at Dynamic flying when they transition across the tunnel on their bellies

to the original poster. ignore 99% of the bullshit people post on this entire website and go find someone competent at your own DZ to ask these questions

[JackC1 0]

Boogers

Even dramatic changes in speed like from a head-down speed dive at 250 mph to belly-flat at 120 mph, won't produced enough deceleration or drag to snap your arms off or anything.

Speak for yourself. I went from 270+mph head down straight to belly precisely once. It was like being hit by a freight train.

I tend to go into a track from head down, wait for the speed to bleed off before starting to bring my arms out, then get big, wave off and dump.

[davidg39 0]

Wow. Didn't think that question would turn into this much of a mess.

In the end, I opted to learn in the tunnel from trained coaches before trying this in the air.

Holding a head down position isn't easy. I can't "get out" of head down if I can't "get in" it in the first place.

[BMichaeli 1]

Ok, first off explain to me why you think this is terrible advice rather then just saying it so i can learn.

Second it is not dangerous if you are on a solo but once you start putting other people into the equation things become exponentially more dangerous. Find me any big way HD where people go directly to their bellies to track away. The only time i have seen something remotely like this done is during the World Record where they had leaders trace on their bellies until their group broke up.

Third to your dynamic point. Dynamic flyers are transitioning through their bellies and are not stoping to fly static belly they continue on to fly in a vertical position. If you believe that going from a static HD position to a static belly position in the tunnel is ok you're wrong (there is one exception to this but i will not get into it right now). there is a reason why you learn to "bail out" when learning HD through your back and to your feet. Instructors are taught to actually prevent you from going to your belly when learning to fly HD, then once you proven you can fly HD they will then slowly and carefully begin to teach you maneuvers through your belly to your Head or feet.