Slink2 0 #1 February 23, 2003 I just watched Real TV (I know that show sucks) which featured a CSS Casa in Ohio. Too many jumpers on the tailgate (no more than 18 buckeyes on the gate at one time) and the plane stalled. The pilot recovered and all was well. Looked like some Quincy loading footage inserted there unless the Grey Casa (you know the one)has the new blue Fayard paint job on the rear door. Anyone there when this happened? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propblast 0 #2 February 23, 2003 No but i have seen this footage before somewhere. Ill look and see if I can find out. -ePropblast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #3 February 23, 2003 the richmond boggie. like 98 or something like that. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #4 February 23, 2003 QuoteI just watched Real TV (I know that show sucks) which featured a CSS Casa in Ohio. Too many jumpers on the tailgate (no more than 18 buckeyes on the gate at one time) and the plane stalled. The pilot recovered and all was well. Looked like some Quincy loading footage inserted there unless the Grey Casa (you know the one)has the new blue Fayard paint job on the rear door. Anyone there when this happened? was this the "flip the casa" video where they didn't recover until like 4k? some people got really hurt on that one IIRC Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #5 February 23, 2003 It was the Richmond boogie, not sure of the year. i know the guy who took the video, he got some flak because he sold the footage. Paul fayard was flying the plane and pulled it out from an upside down flatspin! If you've jumped a CASA you'll see the "No Hanging" and "No more than this # of jumpers past this point" Now you know why! "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #6 February 23, 2003 Heck of a good pilot!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btvr 0 #7 February 23, 2003 Pulled out of an upside down flat spin? That's the pilot I want flying the jump ship I'm in!!! Oh wait a second, I do jump with that pilot at CSS!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #8 February 23, 2003 QuoteIt was the Richmond boogie, not sure of the year. i know the guy who took the video, he got some flak because he sold the footage. Paul fayard was flying the plane and pulled it out from an upside down flatspin! If you've jumped a CASA you'll see the "No Hanging" and "No more than this # of jumpers past this point" Now you know why! Holy crap i'd like to see that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #9 February 24, 2003 Quote Heck of a good pilot!! Yes! Saw the footage when I visited Richmond 3 years ago. The story goes, as it was told to me that day, was that just as the pilot pulled the plane back upright (around 4 grand) the procedures book fell onto his lap, right open to the page that instructed how to recover from the inverted position! Harry video to watch. Big applause for the videoflyer who kept his head and got the shot! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #10 February 24, 2003 May I speak for the many and say please...Let Us See It.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #11 February 24, 2003 96 Richmond Boogie and there were some injuries from it. With in a week of the boogie the tape and makrings went up inside the Casa's saying only X people past this spot. Anyone around CSS needs to ask Paul about this. I've only heard bits and pieces but I've heard its a great story.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #12 February 24, 2003 Quote96 Richmond Boogie cool. i couldn't remember the exact year. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #13 February 24, 2003 QuoteMay I speak for the many and say please...Let Us See It. I'd love to oblige you, but I don't have the footage. Wish I did. If anyone does, yes please post a link so we can all 'enjoy'. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #14 February 24, 2003 I've never seen the video, but i do have a freind who was on that load. To hear the story from someone who was on it gave me a pretty good visual in my head. Thank god nobody died and they learned the weight distribution to make the plane safer. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #15 February 24, 2003 So when it stalled, did the jumpers stay or go?-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #16 February 24, 2003 When it stalled the 20+ that was standing on the gate got tossed. As it fell some of the remaining people were bounced inside around like pin balls and a few more got tossed clear in the planes freefall. I heard someone hit the tail or something too. I think the formation still built to something like a 14 way. There is a good recall of this in the Rec. archives on google.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #17 February 24, 2003 QuoteWhen it stalled the 20+ that was standing on the gate got tossed. As it fell some of the remaining people were bounced inside around like pin balls and a few more got tossed clear in the planes freefall. I heard someone hit the tail or something too. I think the formation still built to something like a 14 way.Quote Had a friend on that load - I think she said it was a big way for someone's 100th jump or soemthing like that. The quote above is roughly what she described._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #18 February 24, 2003 QuoteThank god nobody died and they learned the weight distribution to make the plane safer. any good pilot would know there weight distribution before they took off.....and being a jump pilot must understand the dynamics of jettisonable cargo moving in the rear...this stuff should of been on there years before...but it wasn't.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #19 February 24, 2003 The Casa's had only been around for a season at the max. And the jumpers were told about the limits at the boogie but ignored them. The LO knew the limits of the plane beforehand. There is'nt much a pilot can do to prevent 25 people from trying to stand/hang on the gate short of yelling to get out of his/her plane. Whats he to do? physically restrain the jumpers? On a side note, can many people can be past a certian spot on an Otter and why is'nt it marked on all the Otters?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,006 #20 February 24, 2003 >any good pilot would know there weight distribution before they took > off.....and being a jump pilot must understand the dynamics of > jettisonable cargo moving in the rear... It happens. "No more than 10 people on the tailgate" was a well-known rule for the Eloy skyvan, yet still people managed to stall it during the Montana state record attempt a few years back. A stalled skyvan is bad enough; a stalled lead plane between two otters is worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #21 February 24, 2003 I'm not discounting that it happens....but pilots need to be vigilent in there efforts to instruct the cargo as what to and what NOT to do!!!!! Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,006 #22 February 24, 2003 >but pilots need to be vigilent in there efforts to instruct the cargo as >what to and what NOT to do!!!!! Well, I don't think you can be much more vigilant than putting up a sign in 2" high letters saying "10 PEOPLE MAX AFT OF RED LINE." If they ignore that, they're probably going to ignore a pilot as well. I think it's one of those things that people don't take too seriously until something bad happens. They think that putting 12 people on the tailgate is like pulling at 1700 - no problem as long as no one saw you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites darkwing 5 #23 February 24, 2003 We need to be responsible for ourselves. While the FAA probably makes it the pilot's responsibility, realistically it is our job. Make sure you count heads and pay attention to load distribution limits. For your group and any group ahead of yours. I have been on a stalled Beech D-18 on jumprun. It was not fun at all. I recall that I was the only person not bleeding afterwards. I've paid more attention since then. I also lost some friends in Seattle when a Lockheed Lodestar stalled. It never recovered and you are seriously mistaken if you think you are tough enough to get out if you have to. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #24 February 24, 2003 QuoteWe need to be responsible for ourselves. While the FAA probably makes it the pilot's responsibility, realistically it is our job. Make sure you count heads and pay attention to load distribution limits. We need to keep some historical perspective, though. At the time of the Casa stall, I don't think there WAS any markings on the inside of the plane. So.... think of it like an Otter. How many of us really know the weight and balance limits of an Otter? King Air? Caravan? Actually, we DO know the weight limits of an Otter. We know that you can pile up 20 people in the tail, chunk off a big way withouth problem. I've been one of 16 people chunked up in the back of a Caravan, too. With most skydiving planes in curr ent use, we know that we can pile up as many people as can fit without problem. To us, as skydivers who aren't pilots and don't have copies of airplane manuals handy, why would we think any other plane is different? a: the pilot, owner, and load organizer didn't know, or didn't do the math. b: the pilot, owner, and load oragnizer knew, but the jumpers didn't. c: everyone knew, but the jumpers ignored the rules. Anyone know? A, B, or C? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #25 February 25, 2003 >At the time of the Casa stall, I don't think there WAS any markings on the inside of the plane. Correct. Accourding to the people I've talked to about it and reading rec. (we all know how reliable the internet is... ) its either B or C (depending on the person). Either of them are non-excusible. I've seen pictures of people hanging off both sides of the plane past the edge of the gate. Thats pushing the weight further past the normal area and only screws up the balence even more. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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skymedic 0 #18 February 24, 2003 QuoteThank god nobody died and they learned the weight distribution to make the plane safer. any good pilot would know there weight distribution before they took off.....and being a jump pilot must understand the dynamics of jettisonable cargo moving in the rear...this stuff should of been on there years before...but it wasn't.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #19 February 24, 2003 The Casa's had only been around for a season at the max. And the jumpers were told about the limits at the boogie but ignored them. The LO knew the limits of the plane beforehand. There is'nt much a pilot can do to prevent 25 people from trying to stand/hang on the gate short of yelling to get out of his/her plane. Whats he to do? physically restrain the jumpers? On a side note, can many people can be past a certian spot on an Otter and why is'nt it marked on all the Otters?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #20 February 24, 2003 >any good pilot would know there weight distribution before they took > off.....and being a jump pilot must understand the dynamics of > jettisonable cargo moving in the rear... It happens. "No more than 10 people on the tailgate" was a well-known rule for the Eloy skyvan, yet still people managed to stall it during the Montana state record attempt a few years back. A stalled skyvan is bad enough; a stalled lead plane between two otters is worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #21 February 24, 2003 I'm not discounting that it happens....but pilots need to be vigilent in there efforts to instruct the cargo as what to and what NOT to do!!!!! Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #22 February 24, 2003 >but pilots need to be vigilent in there efforts to instruct the cargo as >what to and what NOT to do!!!!! Well, I don't think you can be much more vigilant than putting up a sign in 2" high letters saying "10 PEOPLE MAX AFT OF RED LINE." If they ignore that, they're probably going to ignore a pilot as well. I think it's one of those things that people don't take too seriously until something bad happens. They think that putting 12 people on the tailgate is like pulling at 1700 - no problem as long as no one saw you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #23 February 24, 2003 We need to be responsible for ourselves. While the FAA probably makes it the pilot's responsibility, realistically it is our job. Make sure you count heads and pay attention to load distribution limits. For your group and any group ahead of yours. I have been on a stalled Beech D-18 on jumprun. It was not fun at all. I recall that I was the only person not bleeding afterwards. I've paid more attention since then. I also lost some friends in Seattle when a Lockheed Lodestar stalled. It never recovered and you are seriously mistaken if you think you are tough enough to get out if you have to. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #24 February 24, 2003 QuoteWe need to be responsible for ourselves. While the FAA probably makes it the pilot's responsibility, realistically it is our job. Make sure you count heads and pay attention to load distribution limits. We need to keep some historical perspective, though. At the time of the Casa stall, I don't think there WAS any markings on the inside of the plane. So.... think of it like an Otter. How many of us really know the weight and balance limits of an Otter? King Air? Caravan? Actually, we DO know the weight limits of an Otter. We know that you can pile up 20 people in the tail, chunk off a big way withouth problem. I've been one of 16 people chunked up in the back of a Caravan, too. With most skydiving planes in curr ent use, we know that we can pile up as many people as can fit without problem. To us, as skydivers who aren't pilots and don't have copies of airplane manuals handy, why would we think any other plane is different? a: the pilot, owner, and load organizer didn't know, or didn't do the math. b: the pilot, owner, and load oragnizer knew, but the jumpers didn't. c: everyone knew, but the jumpers ignored the rules. Anyone know? A, B, or C? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #25 February 25, 2003 >At the time of the Casa stall, I don't think there WAS any markings on the inside of the plane. Correct. Accourding to the people I've talked to about it and reading rec. (we all know how reliable the internet is... ) its either B or C (depending on the person). Either of them are non-excusible. I've seen pictures of people hanging off both sides of the plane past the edge of the gate. Thats pushing the weight further past the normal area and only screws up the balence even more. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
