EVs, Aspirations vs Reality

[ryoder 1,590]

2 hours ago, normiss said:

Wait till he hears about Studebaker. They wasted $4000 trying to make and sell electrics.

Or Hudson! They refused to make electric cars and look where that got them!!

neener neener!!

I knew a guy in Granby CO, who had a bunch of assorted old cars sitting on his property, and once of them was a Studebaker Avanti. Don't know why he had it just sitting there. Seems like that would be worth some serious money.

[normiss 800]

26 minutes ago, ryoder said:

I knew a guy in Granby CO, who had a bunch of assorted old cars sitting on his property, and once of them was a Studebaker Avanti. Don't know why he had it just sitting there. Seems like that would be worth some serious money.

Per Hagerty:

Not so much...some projects just aren't worth the time and effort.

It's interesting how desperate to sell some guys will get when you decide not to make an offer on their vehicles. I've had a few of them call and call to damn near beg me to buy.

[brenthutch 444]

It’s not only the US. This is from the UK

The consumer rejection of EVs is a challenge to the electric car market and government goals to move towards net zero carbon emissions by 2050.

Figures sourced by the Mail Online revealed individuals bought 71,984 of the vehicles last year – 23 percent of the total of 314,687. But in 2022 they purchased 88,910 – 33 percent of the total. [emphasis, links added]

 

According to the latest industry data from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, subdued growth is driven by private buyers as against other sales attributed almost entirely to large fleet registrations. [EVs made up only 8.8 percent of sales to private purchasers]

While the number of car registrations across all fuel types grew 14.3 percent last month, it seems interest in EVs is dying.

https://climatechangedispatch.com/ev-sales-slump-to-just-a-quarter-of-new-purchases-uk-data-shows/

[JoeWeber 2,720]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:22 AM, brenthutch said:

It’s not only the US. This is from the UK

The consumer rejection of EVs is a challenge to the electric car market and government goals to move towards net zero carbon emissions by 2050.

Figures sourced by the Mail Online revealed individuals bought 71,984 of the vehicles last year – 23 percent of the total of 314,687. But in 2022 they purchased 88,910 – 33 percent of the total. [emphasis, links added]

 

According to the latest industry data from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, subdued growth is driven by private buyers as against other sales attributed almost entirely to large fleet registrations. [EVs made up only 8.8 percent of sales to private purchasers]

While the number of car registrations across all fuel types grew 14.3 percent last month, it seems interest in EVs is dying.

https://climatechangedispatch.com/ev-sales-slump-to-just-a-quarter-of-new-purchases-uk-data-shows/

BERLIN — Tesla will suspend most car production at its factory near Berlin from Jan. 29 to Feb. 11, the company said on Thursday, citing a lack of components due to shifts in transport routes because of attacks on vessels in the Red Sea.

Bull-F'n-Poop! They cant's sell the damn things to the bumper car ride people much less discerning consumers and everyone knows it! Fake news!

[gowlerk 2,192]

In what is at least a small setback Hertz is reducing the EV portion of its rental fleet citing lower than anticipated demand and higher repair costs particularly for collision damage than their ICE vehicles. They are putting 20,000 Tesla model 3s up for sale to focus more on ICEs.

https://www.motor1.com/news/704244/hertz-reducing-ev-fleet-selling-model3-cheap/

Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas in a note said the car rental firm's move was a warning across the EV space and it was another sign that EV expectations need to be "reset downward across the market."

"While consumers enjoy the driving experience and fuel savings (per mile) of an EV, there are other 'hidden' costs to EV ownership," Jonas added.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/hertz-dumping-electric-1.7080774

Edited January 12, 2024 by gowlerk

[brenthutch 444]

Bloomberg) -- Electric vehicle sales in the US grew by just 1.3% in the final months of 2023, the latest sign that many American drivers remain cautious about making the leap to battery-powered cars...EV growth will continue to slow, and in the year ahead, we may even report the first quarter-over-quarter sales decline in more than three years

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/us-electric-vehicle-sales-growth-slowed-in-latest-quarter-1.2020217#:~:text=(Bloomberg) -- Electric vehicle sales,leap to battery-powered cars.

Only on Speakers Corner can I post something that is demonstrably true and get 16 pages of pushback in just over two months 

[Phil1111 1,149]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

....Only on Speakers Corner can I post something that is demonstrably true and get 16 pages of pushback in just over two months 

If you cherry picked your facts less, trolled less, crafted your arguments using supporting facts from legitimate sources. You'd not only have more credibility, but also possibility gain agreement. In some cases you're right in your arguments but wrong in your supporting evidence.

In debate you consistently use a false premise fallacy. An example of this would be "birds can fly, I can fly after jumping out of a a/c, therefore pigs can fly".

[brenthutch 444]

10 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

If you cherry picked your facts less, trolled less, crafted your arguments using supporting facts from legitimate sources. 

Bloomberg not good enough for you?  It’s funny how the criticism is “it might be true but the source you quoted has an editorial bias that conflicts with my worldview”.  Facts are facts.

[olofscience 480]

19 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Bloomberg not good enough for you?  It’s funny how the criticism is “it might be true but the source you quoted has an editorial bias that conflicts with my worldview”.  Facts are facts.

Funny how Nature, or the IEA wasn't good enough for you, except when you're the one quoting.

Unlike you, nobody here ever said Bloomberg wasn't a legitimate source.

 

In this case, however, you missed out on context - the report Bloomberg quotes from Cox Automotive actually has a different title: A Record 1.2 Million EVs Were Sold in the U.S. in 2023, According to Estimates from Kelley Blue Book

The final sentence of that article: "Regardless, the Cox Automotive Industry Insights team is forecasting more growth in the EV market. The momentum is there and is not going away."

Edited January 12, 2024 by olofscience

[ryoder 1,590]

Try this with your ICE car.

Mercedes says the feature is only for offroad, but then decided to show it off on the Las Vegas Strip. I imagine it is hard on tires.

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

5 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Only on Speakers Corner can I post something that is demonstrably true and get 16 pages of pushback in just over two months 

Ahhh yes. The issue here might be that your arguments tend to follow this pattern:

When I look down the prairies the earth looks flat. (factual) Therefor the earth is flat. (not factual).

It is a repeating pattern with you.

[billvon 2,991]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

Try this with your ICE car.

Mercedes says the feature is only for offroad, but then decided to show it off on the Las Vegas Strip. I imagine it is hard on tires.

Boy that is going to terrify the "charging is hard to figure out and takes forever!" crowd.

[brenthutch 444]

From the New York Times:

“The electric vehicles the company owned were also more likely to be involved in collisions, Hertz said, and they proved costly to repair. The company said it planned to buy more gasoline-powered vehicles to replace the 20,000 battery-powered cars it was selling.”

More cheap EVs

[billvon 2,991]

Final numbers for 2023 are in!  Over 1.1 million EVs sold in 2023, up from 800,000 in 2022 - a 43% increase.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

59 minutes ago, billvon said:

Final numbers for 2023 are in!  Over 1.1 million EVs sold in 2023, up from 800,000 in 2022 - a 43% increase.

Which compares to an increase of 12.4% total new car sales.

[brenthutch 444]

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1224913698/teslas-chicago-charging-extreme-cold

“I've been here for over five hours at this point and I still have not gotten to charge my car," Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne told CBS News Chicago, as car horns blared nearby. "A charge that should take 45 minutes is taking two hours."

EV sales are about to hit the wall, once the early adopters and virtue signalers have their EVs and normal folks opt out.

Edited January 16, 2024 by brenthutch

[gowlerk 2,192]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

Final numbers for 2023 are in!  Over 1.1 million EVs sold in 2023, up from 800,000 in 2022 - a 43% increase.

Is that US or worldwide?

[headoverheels 333]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Is that US or worldwide?

US.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2023-ev-sales/

 

 

Edited January 17, 2024 by headoverheels

[SethInMI 174]

14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

EV sales are about to hit the wall, once the early adopters and virtue signalers have their EVs and normal folks opt out.

so how far out do you feel comfortable predicting Brent?

Where are EV sales in 5 years in the USA?  Is Tesla bankrupt finally?  EVs a distant memory? Or are they still the same 7% of overall sales they are now?

[kallend 2,027]

9 minutes ago, SethInMI said:

so how far out do you feel comfortable predicting Brent?

 

I think his  Magic 8-Ball is defective.

[headoverheels 333]

8 hours ago, kallend said:

I think his  Magic 8-Ball is defective.

 

For those youngsters who are not familiar:

● It is certain ● It is decidedly so ● Without a doubt ● Yes definitely ● You may rely on it

● As I see it, yes ● Most likely ● Outlook good ● Yes ● Signs point to yes

● Reply hazy, try again ● Ask again later ● Better not tell you now ● Cannot predict now ● Concentrate and ask again

● Don't count on it ● My reply is no ● My sources say no ● Outlook not so good ● Very doubtful

Edited January 17, 2024 by headoverheels

[brenthutch 444]

10 hours ago, SethInMI said:

so how far out do you feel comfortable predicting Brent?

Where are EV sales in 5 years in the USA?  Is Tesla bankrupt finally?  EVs a distant memory? Or are they still the same 7% of overall sales they are now?

<20%

“After a year of slowed EV adoption in the US left auto giants including Ford with billions of dollars in losses, some car makers are rethinking their business strategies”

 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

10 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

<20%

“After a year of slowed EV adoption in the US left auto giants including Ford with billions of dollars in losses, some car makers are rethinking their business strategies”

 

Okay, if you were a proponent of EV adoption and in a power position in the industry or elsewhere what would you do to improve adoption? 

[headoverheels 333]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

<20%

“After a year of slowed EV adoption in the US left auto giants including Ford with billions of dollars in losses, some car makers are rethinking their business strategies”

 

So as much as 21% growth per year, compounded.  Sounds about right.

[brenthutch 444]

14 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Okay, if you were a proponent of EV adoption and in a power position in the industry or elsewhere what would you do to improve adoption? 

Why would I want to do that? EVs are horrible. They cost more, they take forever to charge (if you can find a charging station), depreciate faster, cause more wear on tires and infrastructure, perform poorly in cold weather, are more expensive to repair, lack range, can’t tow, cost more to insure, require massive amounts of natural resources to produce, when they catch fire it is nearly impossible to extinguish and 80% of the electricity to charge them comes from fossil fuels, so they aren’t going to ‘save the planet’

Edited January 18, 2024 by brenthutch