Toggle Fires

[Woody Russell 1]

What are the latest and greatest improvements to avoid Toggle Fires?

[gowlerk 2,190]

3 hours ago, Woody Russell said:

What are the latest and greatest improvements to avoid Toggle Fires?

Deploying with no brake setting seems to work well on some tandem canopies. 

[IanHarrop 41]

4 hours ago, Woody Russell said:

What are the latest and greatest improvements to avoid Toggle Fires?

SInce I read in your greeting post that you've been gone a long time.... velcro holding toggles in place is pretty much gone on Mains

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

5 hours ago, Woody Russell said:

What are the latest and greatest improvements to avoid Toggle Fires?

Setting them properly.

There are some slight & subtle differences between manufacturers. 
Make sure you're doing it the way the manufacturer says to.

Do that and they tend to stay put quite well.

[mark 107]

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Setting them properly.

This, mostly.  Even experienced jumps make mistakes sometimes, especially if they're setting the brakes in the high-distraction environment of the landing area.  Pull the brake-set eye below the guide ring before inserting the tongue of the toggle.

 

The pocket for the toggle tongue can be tightened by running a row of stitches directly on top of the existing pocket stitches.  Try along one side before doing both, as the result can be dramatic.

If the bottom of your toggle is secured with a pin, the slot for the pin is exactly 3/16" wide, which is the standard gauge on a double-needle machine.  Overstitch the existing stitches.  This is easier on some risers than others.

 

Any moment now, the Racer fans are going to chime in about snaps.

 

--Mark

[JumpRu 14]

Don't use cheap old risers, use the one from top container manufacturer. I made a mistake of buying chutingstar risers and had 2 toggle fires on velo 84. Also even on a good risers keep an eye on toggle keeper - that may need to be stitched after several hundred jumps.

Interesting that toggle fire on well loaded velo 84 did not result in cutaway or did not even go into linetwist. Just super slow opening that required lots of harness input to offset rotation that toggle fire started.

[wmw999 2,439]

7 minutes ago, JumpRu said:

Don't use cheap old risers, use the one from top container manufacturer. I made a mistake of buying chutingstar risers and had 2 toggle fires on velo 84. Also even on a good risers keep an eye on toggle keeper - that may need to be stitched after several hundred jumps.

Interesting that toggle fire on well loaded velo 84 did not result in cutaway or did not even go into linetwist. Just super slow opening that required lots of harness input to offset rotation that toggle fire started.

The loops in the steering lines also enter into the equation. If they’re a little loose, toggle fires get much easier. Has nothing to do with that risers. Like most things in skydiving, look at it, think about how it is supposed to work, and imagine error scenarios.

Wendy P  

 

[JumpRu 14]

31 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

The loops in the steering lines also enter into the equation. If they’re a little loose, toggle fires get much easier. Has nothing to do with that risers. Like most things in skydiving, look at it, think about how it is supposed to work, and imagine error scenarios.

Wendy P  

 

I am not sure cat eye in a line itself has anything to do with it, it very well may... I only had 2 toggle fires myself in 20+ years and both were on same riser, so I blame riser for it. Also my friend had 2 toggle fires in short period of time but that was different, again bad risers but issue was that it was incorrect distance from keeper to the ring. Issue was easy reproduced on the ground - u just set the break and give it quick tag... Like when canopy opens quick. That one toggle was constantly coming out. 

[Woody Russell 1]

21 hours ago, mark said:

This, mostly.  Even experienced jumps make mistakes sometimes, especially if they're setting the brakes in the high-distraction environment of the landing area.  Pull the brake-set eye below the guide ring before inserting the tongue of the toggle.

 

The pocket for the toggle tongue can be tightened by running a row of stitches directly on top of the existing pocket stitches.  Try along one side before doing both, as the result can be dramatic.

If the bottom of your toggle is secured with a pin, the slot for the pin is exactly 3/16" wide, which is the standard gauge on a double-needle machine.  Overstitch the existing stitches.  This is easier on some risers than others.

 

Any moment now, the Racer fans are going to chime in about snaps.

 

--Mark

Thanks for the input

[Woody Russell 1]

23 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Setting them properly.

There are some slight & subtle differences between manufacturers. 
Make sure you're doing it the way the manufacturer says to.

Do that and they tend to stay put quite well.

Thanks

[Woody Russell 1]

On 10/31/2023 at 5:00 PM, IanHarrop said:

SInce I read in your greeting post that you've been gone a long time.... velcro holding toggles in place is pretty much gone on Mains

Thanks

[sundevil777 102]

On 10/31/2023 at 2:23 PM, Woody Russell said:

What are the latest and greatest improvements to avoid Toggle Fires?

Slider stops.  I do not remember anyone having premature brake releases back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and sliders stayed where they were supposed to stay.  Does the slider being able to interact with the toggles on opening cause releases?  Along with mini-risers/3-rings, allowing the slider to come down past the links is a fad in which I quite intentionally do not participate.  

A bit of a tangent - regarding the use of "snap toggles" such as Racers have, the 3M company makes a product called "Dual-Lock" which is a great alternative for velcro.  Instead of hook and loop (velcro), the dual lock has little mushroom cap molded shapes that mate together and de-mate in a very orderly and secure way, with none of the fabric damage of hook velcro.

Some people are big fans of the "tru-lock" pin style toggle keeper design, but I don't see the advantage over other designs.

 

[gowlerk 2,190]

6 hours ago, sundevil777 said:

Some people are big fans of the "tru-lock" pin style toggle keeper design, but I don't see the advantage over other designs.

The big advantage is that they are easier to make.

[Woody Russell 1]

Thanks for your input.