speedy 0 #26 February 8, 2006 QuoteWe expected a more mature response from a static-line instructor. Firstly, I instruct my students at the DZ and not on the internet. Secondly, I am sick to death of watching people claiming they can spot, teaching students how to spot, when they themselves have no idea how to spot. Thirdly, do a search in this site for spotting. You will find some interesting conversations. Then we can talk about mature responses. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #27 February 8, 2006 QuoteWhat I'm wondering is how long did it take you to "get it" Well, I still work on it 3,000 jumps later. I hate landing off. Quote and are you still anxious about . At times...Such as spotting a Demo into a stadium in a Valley in PA at night. Anxious is good. Makes you sharper. QuoteI started to learn it this weekend and I'm a little nervous. I've seen jumpers with 500 jumps screw this up so I'm thinking "how in the sam hill am I going to learn it?" Practice is the only way to learn it. That requires doing it and getting it wrong. As long as you learn from the mistakes you are still learning and moving forward. QuoteI really don't want to get stuck on this and have it hold me up getting my license. Relax, you don't have to be perfect to get the license....Remember you already said that you know folks that screw up with 500 jumps...They have a license right? Besides I would rather you know how to spot than have any license. A license is not a life saving skill, spotting IS. Just relax and DO IT. It will take quite a few spots before you get a good idea, and then quite a few more before you can do it pretty well...The key is just to not give up and keep going. I find it a shame that few know how to spot. It is so important, but they never learn."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #28 February 8, 2006 I appreciate that. I've already gotten some wonderful instruction through pm's and my SIM just came in the mail today. I'm actually looking forward to trying it this weekend. Just like packing, I want the pride of being able to actually DO it!Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schoenauer 0 #29 February 8, 2006 Practice through actually doing it and work with someone who is good to pick up on skills helps. A lot of people have learned spotting by doing and maybe failing at times. I have landed people off and I have also landed off by others spotting, so that how it goes. We make mistakes, but we should learn from the mistakes made. In the future when you have the spotting thing down and someone gives you a bad spot where you land off don’t yell but rather simply talk to them. It is more effective.Memento Mori Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #30 February 9, 2006 QuoteA license is not a life saving skill Funny conversation I witnessed last year: "You have several thousand jumps and you don't have a license? How can you jump without a license?" "That's easy - take a parachute and jump. In fact it is a lot easier and survivable with a parachute and without a license than the other way around..." And if I may ad one remark about the real subject of the thread: like you, I always tell beginners that this is learning by doing and that they obviously will make mistakes. Since mistakes are inevitable they should err on the side of caution. After a bad spot there's nothing wrong with walking a mile, modestly contemplating the learning proces; swimming a mile OTOH... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #31 February 9, 2006 ***That's easy - take a parachute and jump. In fact it is a lot easier and survivable with a parachute and without a license than the other way around..." __________________________________________________ That cracks me up! Well, my SIM got here today and man am I excited! Plus as of Saturday I will have my very own gear I'll figure this spotting stuff out for sure...and I've already landed off a couple of times and survivedMrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leesamsiel 0 #32 February 9, 2006 QuoteWell, my SIM got here today and man am I excited! Plus as of Saturday I will have my very own gear I'll figure this spotting stuff out for sure...and I've already landed off a couple of times and survived OK. Lots of good advice for you on this thread. Here are a few more tips: 1. When other more experienced people are spotting, ask them if you may look out of the door when it is time to exit. You should be able to do this without interferring with the skydive. Take a couple of seconds to look around while the first jumper is climbing out to see what the DZ looks like from altitude with various upper wind velocities and directions. If you are very observant, you should get experience about spotting every time you jump. 2. Before you go up to spot, make sure you know what the upper winds are doing at various altitudes (velocity & direction) even though this information is not always reliable. You should be able to get this info from your jump pilot. If they are light and variable...often the case during summer months...exit somewhere near your desired landing site and you'll be fine. It has been my experience that many people try to make spotting more complicated than really is. Unless the upper winds are very strong (>25-30 knots), exiting slightly upwind from the DZ will almost always be a good bet. 3. When you're learning, don't offer to be the spotter on the first load of the day. That's the toughest load to get it right. Most small DZ's don't go to the trouble of dropping a wind drift indicator before sending jumpers out on the first load. Let's face it: the skydivers on the first load of the day ARE the wind drift indicators. Aviation information on the upper winds is derived from ascension balloons which are not 100% reliable. If you are jumping at a small, untowered airport, the information about uppers is probably from an airport many miles away. Plus the winds can and do shift from hour to hour...so reported wind directions and velocities may change from one jump load to another. 4. Always ask skydivers from the load before yours where they got out and whether the spot was appropriate. Make adjustments to your exit accordingly. 5. When you're unsure about the spot (first load of the day, inexperienced spotter, etc.), open a little higher than normal so you can make it back if the spot is long. If you're up wind when your canopy comes out, be prepared to ride your rear risers with brakes stowed to get the maximum glide out of your canopy. For safety, let others on the load know you are planning to open high before you do so. 6. Landing off is always more dangerous, so if you see you are not going to make it back to the DZ, plan well in advance where you are going to land. By the time you're at 1,000' you should have decided where you are going to land and be thinking about the direction of your final to land into the wind and avoid obstacles. Remember: spotting is an art, not an exact science. If you make a mistake, don't be too hard on yourself. If someone chews you out, shrug it off. Bill Gates once said, "640K ought to be enough RAM for anyone." Even very smart people are wrong...sometimes. LS "Flying is the second greatest experience known to man. Landing safely is the first." --Anon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #33 February 9, 2006 That's seems* like an excellent post. One minor pedantic quibble: Velocity is defined as speed + direction. * I'm a turbine brat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #34 February 9, 2006 Looking straight down is the first skill to master when learning to spot. Try looking at the horizon in front of the airplane, then drawing a imaginary line to underneath you. Similarly, look at the horizon near the wing tip and draw an imaginary line to underneath you. Practice this skill 3 or 4 times on every jump run. Practice makes perfect. Asking permission to look over the shoulder of a senior spotter is good practice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #35 February 9, 2006 What's funny is I'm about to move 3 hours from where I live now, and will be going from a Cessna dz to a twin otter dz....where I will not be spotting! I love that but hate it at the same time. I am going to spend a lot of time and effort learning this skill, but won't be using it much after thatMrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #36 February 9, 2006 UHHHHH you should spot no matter what plane you are jumping from.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #37 February 9, 2006 IHMO spotting is more important with a turbine plane. With a 172/182/206 there a small difference between a good and medicore spot and big difference between a good and a bad spot. Think about a big turbine plane: plenty of jumpers, long jumprun, but everone should make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #38 February 9, 2006 > Most small DZ's don't go to the trouble of dropping a wind drift indicator before sending jumpers out on the first load. Do most large ones? I've never seem it done in California. I do need to add that I typically come later in the day, but I've done first loads at 5 DZs. (First load after a night of boogie drinking leads to some funky times) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #39 February 9, 2006 Quote> Most small DZ's don't go to the trouble of dropping a wind drift indicator before sending jumpers out on the first load. Do most large ones? No and its a shame. It really helps jumpers understand spotting when they can see a WDI drift from altitude to the ground. Suddenly it clicks, "Hey the idea is to exit up wind just far enough and on the right heading so that I land with no inputs right in the peas....Pretty cool!" You can tell them that all day, they can parrot it back to you verbatim, but it takes seeing it for some people to really understand it. I taked to a DZM about it once....They gave a pretty good answer as to why they don't use them. He said that the metal rod in the WDI's can cause problems for the farmers when they run over them. To be honest not sure if it is true, but being a good neighbor is a good idea. And since I don't know better, its better to be on the safe side. Anyone KNOW it could be a problem?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #40 February 9, 2006 QuoteI taked to a DZM about it once....They gave a pretty good answer as to why they don't use them. He said that the metal rod in the WDI's can cause problems for the farmers when they run over them. To be honest not sure if it is true, but being a good neighbor is a good idea. And since I don't know better, its better to be on the safe side. We make streamer with a small plastic bag, 80grams of sand and some paper. Its no harm to anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #41 February 9, 2006 QuoteWe make streamer with a small plastic bag, 80grams of sand and some paper. Its no harm to anyone Please tell more. He said he would look into something like that."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #42 February 9, 2006 QuotePlease tell more. He said he would look into something like that. Come on! You are just kidding! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #43 February 9, 2006 QuoteCome on! You are just kidding! Nope. I can only assume that you put the sand in a bag and wrap it with tape...ect. But if you already have something that works, why should I reinvent it? I would not have asked if I knew the answer....If it was a joke, it would have been followed by----> THAT was a joke!"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #44 February 9, 2006 Ok. You need some crepe paper or crinkled paper paper in length of 10meters 25-35 cm in width, a small plastic bag, tape and 60-80 grams of sand. Fill the bag with sand, seal it. tape the bag onto one end of the paper. Roll the paper around the bag. It should we the same descent rate that a skydiver under canopy. Don't forget to roll down 0,5-1meters and just stuff next to the roll before you throw. We used a piece of heat insulation foam from an old heatpipe as a weight and some kind of paper. I can take some pictures next time, I don't know when, because its a bit off-season here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #45 February 9, 2006 QuoteQuote> Most small DZ's don't go to the trouble of dropping a wind drift indicator before sending jumpers out on the first load. Do most large ones? No and its a shame. It really helps jumpers understand spotting when they can see a WDI drift from altitude to the ground. Suddenly it clicks, "Hey the idea is to exit up wind just far enough and on the right heading so that I land with no inputs right in the peas....Pretty cool!" You can tell them that all day, they can parrot it back to you verbatim, but it takes seeing it for some people to really understand it. Not every group can have the perfect spot when jumping from a turbine plane. You have to allow for separation between exits.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #46 February 9, 2006 QuoteWe used a piece of heat insulation foam from an old heatpipe as a weight and some kind of paper See, while I knew how a WDI worked (and rolled my fair share in the Army). insulation foam is a good idea as well. The sand idea is pretty good, but I was wondering if you had used it and how it worked. I didn't want to just try some stuff if someone already had it figured out. I am not a fan of reinventing the wheel. But thanks for the info...And if you have done the sand bit, did you think it worked well?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #47 February 9, 2006 QuoteNot every group can have the perfect spot when jumping from a turbine plane. You have to allow for separation between exits. Very true, but you need to know the ideal situation and the concept before you can teach the extreme ends."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #48 February 9, 2006 QuoteAnyone KNOW it could be a problem? Don't know about metal rods - we used to have a piece of wood attached. Two decades ago @ my old club the widi landed on a horse, the horse "got scared and ran away" (don't know the expresion in English), was hurt and the owner claimed that it was trained to become a jumping horse and was now worthless. The clubs insurance company paid a large sum (they DO have their off-days.... Since widi's have to be followed visually all the way to the ground it also ment circling at low altitude. In general, that is not good when you are making friends and influencing people... Besides, the quality of the meteorological information I can work with now is so much better than what it used to be that I see absolutely no need to bother my friendly neighbourhood with any more airplane noise than is inevitable... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #49 February 10, 2006 Of course I give a look silly. [: of course no there has never ever been an issue or "close calls" I guess I was more just implying I've never given "5 left" or "5 right". Maybe once for fun, but the pilot just laughed at me.*** You make me laugh, hehehehehe. Have had that happen to me too. Have had the pilot tip the plane and not turned it too. Several good posts here to get you going on spotting.I was a static line student and jumped out of cessna 182's for the first 200 or so jumps. Jumping manta 288 and goliath 320 mains, round reserves in some rigs. Had to make it to a small landing area with tall trees surrounding 3 sides, powerlines on the 4th side with a house and big tree in the yard, and a swamp nearby with deadly snakes in it.There were 2 alternate fields you had to dedicate to above 1,000ft. The school taught spotting very well. On jumprun the pilot yells "door". 1.Open the door 2.place your head outside the aircraft, 3.look down,4.locate landing area 5.look for other aircraft, freefallers, and parachutes, and listen to pilot commands. 6.Attempt to aid the pilot in navigating the aircraft to the preplanned 'spot' to 'jump'. 2,3,4,and5 pertain to every jump. 1 and 6 pertain to you if in the door and first out. If youd like to know more let me know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #50 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteCome on! You are just kidding! Nope. I can only assume that you put the sand in a bag and wrap it with tape...ect. But if you already have something that works, why should I reinvent it? I would not have asked if I knew the answer.Quote For the really good spotters you could use pea gravel from the pea pit and the spotters job is to return the peas to the pea pit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 2 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
