Spotting skills

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Everytime I have self spotted I seem to land just a bit off or in the case of my run in with the herd of animals, I landed WAY off... I get better everytime... hurting your ankle when flaring into a animal is a great lesson in spotting

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[speedy 0]

The cows are the real scary part I am scared of those.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[skydivermom 0]

The cows were the funniest part to me. They watched me do my daisy chains and gather my canopy, and then started following me. I knew they just wanted food, but I stopped and told them "unless you guys are giving me a ride back, you have to stay here". I swear they all stopped. It was CLASSIC! They don't scare me because my grandma always had cows.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[skydivermom 0]

Crap Lisa! That had to suck. Sorry you got hurt.

Yes, I suppose I should expect a few more off-landings while I'm learning to spot. I'm sure there was some luck on my side on Sunday. Unfortunately, screwing up is part of learning.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[lisamariewillbe 1]

ahhh it wasnt a big deal really, the poor little guy was more hurt then me and I made a jump right after... but it scared me... I did not sit there and daisy chain hell if I would not have been attached to the rig it might have been left there I wanted to leave so bad...

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I think I am in a minority because I am interested in that information. I actually want to learn how to do this and do it well. Equipment does fail and you can't rely soley on it. Early on under canopy, I made myself learn how to tell if I was going up or downwind without looking at the windsock. That served me well when I had my first off-landing and couldn't see the windsock. I still landed right on the windline. Of course I still look at the windsock, but I know I'm not totally dependant on it. That's how I would like to eventually be with spotting skills. I want the satisfaction of knowing I CAN do it...and of course it could save my life.

I think you were actually quoting Speedy. I'm pretty sure Ron never posted that people should just look out the door and guess at the spot.

You are doing the right thing learning how to spot. It is a valuable skill to have, even if is often not emphasized enough at some DZs. Keep at it.

You bring up a good point with respect to not having a windsock if you land off. It is important to be able to look and "see" what the winds are doing under canopy.

At the very least, knowing how to spot gives you the ability to be able to see if the pilot's spot is acceptable. If you don't know where the spot should be, you can't tell if that's where you're at.

At the most it could save your life.

More likely it will just save you a walk now and again.

Knowing how to spot is a lot like knowing your emergency procedures. Doesn't come in handy all the time, but when it does it's really good knowledge to have.

Don't let anyone discourage you from obtaining and practicing your spotting skills.

For Great Deals on Gear

[speedy 0]

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Knowing how to spot is a lot like knowing your emergency procedures. Doesn't come in handy all the time,

Everytime you jump you should be using your spotting skills.

You may not need your EP's on every jump, but I check the spot everytime I jump.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[dharma1976 0]

and then there was that time that the pilot said it was allright and I was in a 206 and I started to try to climb out got frustrated by the door and lack of easy to get to handles and size of door (I am kinda tall) finally freaked grabbed my jumping partned by the harness and dragged him out the door...oh yeah that was dumb....we where still like 2-3 miles out fortunately we were the only idiots to get out and realized it once we looked down pulled a little higher for us 5-6K and it took every trick in the book to make it back...balling up reall small hanging on the rears openign chest strap...but we both made it back

and just in enough altitude to pull a 90 degree turn...but I learned my lesson...look out first stupid know what the winds are and make at least a mental calculation of where you should get out base don wind speed up top

(and oh yeah there are those flying machines below sometimes too)

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Ron 10]

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Wow, Here is the first sign that you are running out from arguments

Nah, just pointing out how some have no idea what they are talking about. I know about a jump run from both the jumpers and pilots perspective.....Not something many can claim.

You can try and say that its cause I am out of arguments...Well I am tired of arguing with people who claim to know it all.....So maybe your right.

But I tend to think that people with more experience...read more jumps, more ratings, more time, more sides to the same situation...Know more.

But that is not something those with less experience will admit.

Funny thing is that the more I know the less I think I know, and the more I listen to those with more experience than me...When I had a few hundred jumps...Well I knew it all...Boy was I stupid.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 4]

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Wow, Here is the first sign that you are running out from arguments

Nah, just pointing out how some have no idea what they are talking about. I know about a jump run from both the jumpers and pilots perspective.....Not something many can claim.

You can try and say that its cause I am out of arguments...Well I am tired of arguing with people who claim to know it all.....So maybe your right.

But I tend to think that people with more experience...read more jumps, more ratings, more time, more sides to the same situation...Know more.

But that is not something those with less experience will admit.

Funny thing is that the more I know the less I think I know, and the more I listen to those with more experience than me...When I had a few hundred jumps...Well I knew it all...Boy was I stupid.

Ron,

Its like talking to kids at a day care center. Even if they are listening there is little chance that they understand.

Tell them to call back when and if they survive in the sport 15 years.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[phoenixlpr 0]

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But I tend to think that people with more experience...read more jumps, more ratings, more time, more sides to the same situation...Know more.

Do they know how to share? Without it , it's just a pissing contest.

[MB38 0]

...which is really all this thread has become.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[phoenixlpr 0]

No all.

Someone has published some freefall drift calculation tool and not just repeating, that he knows better.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Knowing how to spot is a lot like knowing your emergency procedures. Doesn't come in handy all the time,

Everytime you jump you should be using your spotting skills.

You may not need your EP's on every jump, but I check the spot everytime I jump.

I agree, you should use your spotting skills on every jump, just like you should practice you EPs on every jump.

The point I was trying to make is that on most jumps, you are not likely to have to redirect the pilot on the spot, even after rechecking it yourself. Most pilots can get the spot right most of the time, so usually, it won't make a big difference whether or not you know how to spot. Just like on most jumps, it doesn't matter if you can properly execute your EPs, because most jumps do not result in malfunctions.

When it does matter, though, it really matters. It is a bad idea, IMO, to skydive without knowing how to spot.

For Great Deals on Gear

[tso-d_chris 0]

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But I tend to think that people with more experience...read more jumps, more ratings, more time, more sides to the same situation...Know more.

Do they know how to share? Without it , it's just a pissing contest.

He's trying, but those that need the info the most are not being very receptive to the information being offered.

For Great Deals on Gear

[mnealtx 0]

*chris, this isn't necessarily a reply to you - you were just the last response*

I was taught spotting in my AFF progression and have spotted my jumps since then, calculating winds aloft and drift for the exit / opening points. I've not had any experience with spotting for full plane loads, though.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Remster 30]

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Everytime you jump you should be using your spotting skills.

You may not need your EP's on every jump, but I check the spot everytime I jump.

As much as you should be able to spot and do so as often as you can, I call BS on that.

If you're in a group, and arent close to the door, you just have to trust the people at the door.

Remster

[speedy 0]

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He's trying, but those that need the info the most are not being very receptive to the information being offered.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[speedy 0]

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Everytime you jump you should be using your spotting skills.

You may not need your EP's on every jump, but I check the spot everytime I jump.

As much as you should be able to spot and do so as often as you can, I call BS on that.

If you're in a group, and arent close to the door, you just have to trust the people at the door.

Well you could always check the spot while in freefall while you are waiting for the last person on the group to dock. If it looks bad, wave of early and oull higher. Or is that a bad move?

Sorry, guess I should have said almost.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[Ron 10]

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But I tend to think that people with more experience...read more jumps, more ratings, more time, more sides to the same situation...Know more.

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Do they know how to share? Without it , it's just a pissing contest

Even the best teacher can not teach someone when they will not listen.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[speedy 0]

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But I tend to think that people with more experience...read more jumps, more ratings, more time, more sides to the same situation...Know more.

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Do they know how to share? Without it , it's just a pissing contest

Even the best teacher can not teach someone when they will not listen.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[phoenixlpr 0]

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In Reply To
In Reply To
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But I tend to think that people with more experience...read more jumps, more ratings, more time, more sides to the same situation...Know more.

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Do they know how to share? Without it , it's just a pissing contest

Even the best teacher can not teach someone when they will not listen.

LaughLaughLaugh

Dave

I would say the very best of the flield are not always the best in teaching.

[kallend 2,027]

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Everytime you jump you should be using your spotting skills.

You may not need your EP's on every jump, but I check the spot everytime I jump.

As much as you should be able to spot and do so as often as you can, I call BS on that.

If you're in a group, and arent close to the door, you just have to trust the people at the door.

Well you could always check the spot while in freefall while you are waiting for the last person on the group to dock. If it looks bad, wave of early and oull higher. Or is that a bad move?

Sorry, guess I should have said almost.

Try THAT move on a 100+ way!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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Do they know how to share? Without it , it's just a pissing contest

Even the best teacher can not teach someone when they will not listen.

LaughLaughLaugh

Dave

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I would say the very best of the flield are not always the best in teaching.

Maybe, but the more experienced are much more qualified to teach than the lesser experienced.

And I very much doubt you can debate that the best teacher can't teach someone who would rather talk than listen.

Now to bring this back to this disscusion. You may not like the way a person presents knowledge, and thats fine. But no matter what you think about the method..The knowledge does not change. Correct is still correct even if you don't like the delivery.

Also, it is much easier to teach when the student listens. When a "student" ignores, acts abusive, refuses to listen and only talks...Well in my "real" job as an Instructor for a 200000+ employee company, they would get pulled aside, and warned. If the behavior continued, they would be bounced from the class. This also applies to my "weekend" job as a skydiving Instructor and coach.

The problem on here is most times the people who need to listen...won't and no matter how much you try to convience them......Well they just refuse to listen to anyone but themselves.

An Instructor I worked with told me once something like this, "A person believes themself to be true".

Which is to say that even if the person is wrong they can't see it. Or maybe their ego will not let them see it.

In the real world you can Test for Understanding (TFU) or just the fact the person can do, or not do the task, Compatancy Based Training (CBT), would settle pissing contests real quick.

So in the real world we both could jump on a plane without GPS and we could show what we have....

The person with the most skill will easily rise to the top AND EVEN THEN the person who should then sit down and listen would just make an excuse and still refuse to listen. However, they might talk less and disrupt the class less.

I wonder why bother to to try and share knowledge...From my time as an Instructor I have learned that those that think they are correct, nothing will change them..

That goes from the guy that thinks his canopy choice is fine even those with more experience know otherwise...Even sometimes after the kid hooks in and is in the hospital.....To the guy that thinks he knows best how to turn a block.

But in the end, the guy with the most experience...Even if you don't like him, knows more.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 4]

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I wonder why bother to to try and share knowledge...From my time as an Instructor I have learned that those that think they are correct, nothing will change them..

You bother for the same reason many others here and at the DZ do. For every one of the "instant experts” who is sure he/she has this all figured out, there are many others who just sit quietly and listen. They take what they have heard, evaluate it and add to their knowledge. As they gain experience, make more jumps; they start to see how all these bits of information fit together. And hopefully one day they will “bother” to pass some of what they have learned over the years on to others.

Keep on “bothering” bro.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals