Brent for SC Moderator

[jakee 1,490]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I think there is ample evidence of wrongdoing on both Trump and Biden.  Let’s take the example of the illegal possession of classified documents. You guys demand jail time for Trump while making excuses for Biden. When someone said “Still waiting for any proof of 'Biden's corruption” while the infestation is ongoing, I just pointed Trump has yet to be convicted of any crime and you guys go batshit crazy.

So much utter fucking partisan bullshit.

You can’t say ‘there is ample evidence of Biden’s wrongdoing’ then hide behind ‘the investigation is still ongoing’ when someone asks what the fucking evidence is and expect to have anyone believe that you’re being honest.

Leaving aside that Biden’s documents case is nothing whatsoever like Trump’s. Did Biden defy subpoenas? Did he obstruct justice? Did he send minions to delete security footage? Did he show journalists war plans that he knew were still secret? 
 

If you keep claiming not to like Trump you know what you have to do - vote for Biden. Otherwise you have to admit you’re just as in thrall to him and just as taken in by right wing conspiracy theories as the rest of your looney party. 

 

 

[brenthutch 444]

7 minutes ago, jakee said:

So much utter fucking partisan bullshit.

You can’t say ‘there is ample evidence of Biden’s wrongdoing’ then hide behind ‘the investigation is still ongoing’ when someone asks what the fucking evidence is and expect to have anyone believe that you’re being honest.

Leaving aside that Biden’s documents case is nothing whatsoever like Trump’s. Did Biden defy subpoenas? Did he obstruct justice? Did he send minions to delete security footage? Did he show journalists war plans that he knew were still secret? 
 

If you keep claiming not to like Trump you know what you have to do - vote for Biden. Otherwise you have to admit you’re just as in thrall to him and just as taken in by right wing conspiracy theories as the rest of your looney party. 

 

 

Did Biden illegally retain classified documents, some all the way back from his time in the Senate?  Clearly. I was asked to provide proof of Biden’s wrongdoing and I did.  Just because Trump acted more egregiously, doesn’t give Biden a pass.

[jakee 1,490]

40 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

If Hungary can do it why can’t we?

Hungary is ruled by a proto-dictator leading his country further and further down the Vladimir Putin model of government. Using them as an example of how to do anything right now is about as MAGA as it gets.

 

(Seriously, the US right’s idolisation of Orban couldn’t be a bigger warning sign if it was literally written in the sky with fireworks.)

[jakee 1,490]

2 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Did Biden illegally retain classified documents, some all the way back from his time in the Senate?  Clearly. I was asked to provide proof of Biden’s wrongdoing and I did.  Just because Trump acted more egregiously, doesn’t give Biden a pass.

I see. It’s kinda odd that you phrased it in a way that implied parity when you actually meant that there is evidence of an incredibly small scale of wrongdoing from Biden compared to Trump. Also odd that you contrasted calls for jail time for Trump and excuses for Biden even though you actually meant there was no evidence of wrongdoing from Biden of the sort that has lead people to call for jail time for Trump. 

[brenthutch 444]

18 minutes ago, jakee said:

Hungary is ruled by a proto-dictator leading his country further and further down the Vladimir Putin model of government. Using them as an example of how to do anything right now is about as MAGA as it gets.

 

(Seriously, the US right’s idolisation of Orban couldn’t be a bigger warning sign if it was literally written in the sky with fireworks.)

Who said anything about Orbán? I just gave an example of how a robust physical barrier facilitated an end to a border crisis.  

Edited December 22, 2023 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,720]

18 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Who said anything about Orbán? I just gave an example of how a robust physical barrier facilitated an end to a border crisis.  

Some robust physical barrier. Do you suppose tear gas, water cannons, a hard line government, and nearby Croatia helped out? You offered nothing because you have nothing but Fox news talking points. 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

When someone said “Still waiting for any proof of 'Biden's corruption” while the infestation is ongoing, I just pointed Trump has yet to be convicted of any crime and you guys go batshit crazy.

Correct, but he has been convicted of lying about not raping a woman. The lying is a crime, the rape is a crime, but has passed the statute of limitations.

What has Biden been convicted of in court?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

50 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Did Biden illegally retain classified documents, some all the way back from his time in the Senate?

Did Trump rape a woman?

Did Biden get convicted about lying about not keeping classified information?

Do you understand the concept of mens rea?

 

[brenthutch 444]

35 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Did Trump rape a woman?

Did Biden get convicted about lying about not keeping classified information?

Do you understand the concept of mens rea?

 

Are you saying that Biden was too stupid to realize he should not horde classified documents?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

31 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Are you saying that Biden was too stupid to realize he should not horde classified documents?

That is a long way of typing: "No, I don't understand."

 

[jakee 1,490]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Who said anything about Orbán? I just gave an example of how a robust physical barrier facilitated an end to a border crisis.  

If you don’t understand that how Hungary manages to do something inevitably comes back to Orban then I have no idea why you even bother talking about politics at all.

When the question is how does Hungary manage to do X - well, Orban controls the government, Orban controls the press and Orban controls the courts. So how else does anything happen?

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

If you don’t understand that how Hungary manages to do something inevitably comes back to Orban then I have no idea why you even bother talking about politics at all.

When the question is how does Hungary manage to do X - well, Orban controls the government, Orban controls the press and Orban controls the courts. So how else does anything happen?

Edited December 22, 2023 by brenthutch

[brenthutch 444]

9 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Ok forget I said “Like Hungary” 

Seriously, if I suggested the US should have developed a missile program like Germany during WWll you would accuse me of loving Hitler

 

[jakee 1,490]

38 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Ok forget I said “Like Hungary” 

Seriously, if I suggested the USshould have developed a missile program like Germany during WWll you would accuse me of loving Hitler

If you suggested copying the Third Reich’s  border policy I sure as hell would.

And again, your point was about how Hungary manages to do things - the answer to which is authoritarian, anti-democratic government.

[brenthutch 444]

3 minutes ago, jakee said:

If you suggested copying the Third Reich’s  border policy I sure as hell would.

And again, your point was about how Hungary manages to do things - the answer to which is authoritarian, anti-democratic government.

Forget I mentioned Hungary, let’s try again.  My plan for the border:

Reinstate the remain in Mexico policy, require asylum seekers to apply at the U.S. embassy in their home country, eliminate sanctuary enclaves and listen to the border patrol agents when they request physical barriers to be placed where they are needed. (Not the Trump wall). 

 

[jakee 1,490]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

require asylum seekers to apply at the U.S. embassy in their home country, 

Now stay with me here, because this is going to be an extremely complex scenario that may stretch the limits of your understanding - but what if the dangerous government of said home country has agents identifying citizens who go to the US embassy?

Edited December 22, 2023 by jakee

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Now stay with me here, because this is going to be an extremely complex scenario that may stretch the limits of your understanding - but what if the dangerous government of said home country has agents identifying citizens who go to the US embassy?

And?  Finish your scenario and please identify the country in question.

[jakee 1,490]

13 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

And?  Finish your scenario

They get murdered / disappeared / imprisoned for life by the government they want to escape from. 
 

When I said it was complicated I was being facetious. I didn’t think it was actually possible that you wouldn’t understand.

[billvon 2,991]

11 minutes ago, jakee said:

When I said it was complicated I was being facetious. I didn’t think it was actually possible that you wouldn’t understand.

Don't misunderestimate the cognitive skills of people for whom understanding would jeopardize their worldview.

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

They get murdered / disappeared / imprisoned for life by the government they want to escape from. 
 

When I said it was complicated I was being facetious. I didn’t think it was actually possible that you wouldn’t understand.

Now you are just making sh*t up, why would a government want to go through the trouble of imprisoning someone when they can just facilitate their removal.  Put some meat on the bones of your fictional scenario and name the country(s)

[kallend 2,027]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

Now stay with me here, because this is going to be an extremely complex scenario that may stretch the limits of your understanding - but what if the dangerous government of said home country has agents identifying citizens who go to the US embassy?

Like in E. Germany before the wall came down?  Easy, they were arrested (or worse).

[jakee 1,490]

7 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Now you are just making sh*t up, why would a government want to go through the trouble of imprisoning someone when they can just facilitate their removal.  Put some meat on the bones of your fictional scenario and name the country(s)

Because despotic regimes rely on the threat of punishment to keep the populace in line. If someone goes against the government, simply allowing them to leave and no longer be subject to that government is not a desirable outcome. It signals to everyone in the country that they too can go against the government and be absolutely fine. Do you think Kim Jong Un would be ok with any North Korean citizens turning up at the UK embassy and attempting to escape to Europe? 
 

This is honestly the most staggering level of cluelessness you’ve displayed yet.

[brenthutch 444]

4 hours ago, jakee said:

Because despotic regimes rely on the threat of punishment to keep the populace in line. If someone goes against the government, simply allowing them to leave and no longer be subject to that government is not a desirable outcome. It signals to everyone in the country that they too can go against the government and be absolutely fine. Do you think Kim Jong Un would be ok with any North Korean citizens turning up at the UK embassy and attempting to escape to Europe? 
 

This is honestly the most staggering level of cluelessness you’ve displayed yet.

We don’t have an immigration crisis with North Koreans, try again. BTW the VAST majority of these folks are economic migrants, not political ones.
 

Edited December 23, 2023 by brenthutch

[jakee 1,490]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

We don’t have an immigration crisis with North Koreans, try again.

Right, because North Korea is locked down to an extent where it’s incredibly difficult for anyone to physically leave. Which according to you is impossible, because there’s no reason for NK to spend so much time, money and effort on locking down the borders.
 

As for trying again, how can I? If the only thing you will accept is a real example of the consequences of your plan then there isn’t one - because your requirement of asylum seekers presenting themselves at an Embassy in their home country doesn’t exist. That’s just the most transparently stupid attempt at a ‘gotcha’ imaginable. 
 

But ultimately if you don’t understand that the real situation of nations imprisoning and refusing to release people that other nations are desperately trying to have released actually exists, then you really need to quit talking about politics until you join the rest of us in reality.

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

BTW the VAST majority of these folks are economic migrants, not political ones.

Asylum seekers are generally not just economic migrants because that alone won’t get them asylum. But ok - if your position is that there is nothing that would prevent genuine asylum seekers trying to escape despotic governments from just walking into an embassy… are you really saying that you want the US to take in many more asylum seekers than it does now?

[brenthutch 444]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

 

Asylum seekers are generally not just economic migrants because that alone won’t get them asylum. But ok - if your position is that there is nothing that would prevent genuine asylum seekers trying to escape despotic governments from just walking into an embassy… are you really saying that you want the US to take in many more asylum seekers than it does now?

The current situation is that when a migrant presents themselves, they claim asylum and are released into the country (by the millions) there is no means of tracking or accountability.  The Biden Administration is solely responsible for this debacle. Their policy is “please don’t come, but if you do you will be allowed in”. This only encourages more migrants. It was only a few short months ago the border crisis was a figment of FOX news propaganda.  Now that Democrat mayors are screaming bloody murder folks are beginning to tune in.

BTW if the only people who are allowed in were actual legitimate asylum seekers and not economic opportunists we wouldn’t even be discussing this issue.

Edited December 23, 2023 by brenthutch