The Continent’s Consensus on Climate?……Crumbling

[brenthutch 444]

https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/02/europe-consensus-climate-crumbling
As I have been saying for years, when the abstract concept of “saving the planet” runs into the economic reality of financial survival, the rush of de-carbonization will shut down quicker than Joe Biden’s brain at a press conference.

 

Edited March 1, 2024 by brenthutch

[olofscience 480]

Another opinion piece about a part of the world you barely know.

Another thread started, because you got so completely owned on the last one.

Mods, can we make it a rule that opinion pieces NEED to be marked clearly as such by the person posting them? Banning them as thread-starting sources would be even better, but I'd settle for just better labelling. This guy keeps misleadingly posting opinion pieces as fact.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/02/europe-consensus-climate-crumbling
As I have been saying for years, when the abstract concept of “saving the planet” runs into economic reality of financial survival, the rush to de-carbonization will shut down quicker than Joe Biden’s brain at a press conference.

 

Look at you! A funny! I wonder how they get it started again, maybe by playing clips from Trump rally's or talking about our booming economy or the Republican sabotage of meaningful border control? 

[brenthutch 444]

16 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Another opinion piece about a part of the world you barely know.

 

I lived on the continent for more than five years, speak enough German and Italian to get by, been to a dozen+ countries, from Spain to Lithuania, Netherlands to Turkey and most everything in between. Best stay on the porch young pup. Now I will go back to ignoring you.

[lippy 918]

20 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Now I will go back to ignoring you.

And facts that don’t agree with your world view 

[olofscience 480]

42 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I lived on the continent for more than five years

So, when was your last visit?

[jakee 1,489]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/02/europe-consensus-climate-crumbling
As I have been saying for years, when the abstract concept of “saving the planet” runs into the economic reality of financial survival, the rush of de-carbonization will shut down quicker than Joe Biden’s brain at a press conference.

Yeah, but you also said El Niño / La Niña was impossible if climate change was real - so why should anyone care what else you have to say?

[airdvr 210]

I said a few years back that as soon as the economic reality of the cost of addressing climate change becomes real the support for those changes will fall of dramatically.

 

[brenthutch 444]

1 minute ago, jakee said:

Yeah, but you also said El Niño / La Niña was impossible if climate change was real - so why should anyone care what else you have to say?

Now you are just making things up. I never said climate change is not real. I have said repeatedly that the climate changes and the earth has been warming, on and off since the last ice age. What I HAVE said is that natural variability overpowers and obscures any role CO2 may play in the warming and what role CO2 does play is largely beneficial (a literal greening of the planet)

[JoeWeber 2,720]

5 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I said a few years back that as soon as the economic reality of the cost of addressing climate change becomes real the support for those changes will fall of dramatically.

 

The naysayers and luddites seem to be gaining ground thats for sure. But, in the absence of Trump, Putin, the Republican Autocracy party and the fire hose depressing issues they're happily visiting on the world there might be more positive attitudes about just about everything.  

[billvon 2,991]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

I said a few years back that as soon as the economic reality of the cost of addressing climate change becomes real the support for those changes will fall of dramatically.

 

Perhaps.  But since sales of solar, wind and battery storage are still growing, and since EVs are steadily gaining in popularity year over year, we haven't reached that point yet.  Note that's only two aspects of climate change mitigation.

And historically we've been willing to forego profit to do the right thing.  We did it with slavery.  We did it with segregation.  We did it with the ozone layer.  We did it with sulfates, mercury and particulate pollution.  We did it with lead paint.  Support for those mitigations hasn't "fallen drastically" even though most of their costs have already been paid.

[billvon 2,991]

4 hours ago, olofscience said:

Mods, can we make it a rule that opinion pieces NEED to be marked clearly as such by the person posting them? Banning them as thread-starting sources would be even better, but I'd settle for just better labelling. This guy keeps misleadingly posting opinion pieces as fact.

1) Everything here is effectively an opinion piece.

2) If you don't know by now that BH posts misinformation specifically to troll people - I don't know what to tell you.  Put him on ignore.  Or just avoid reading his stuff.

[jakee 1,489]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Now you are just making things up. I never said climate change is not real. I have said repeatedly that the climate changes and the earth has been warming, on and off since the last ice age. What I HAVE said is that natural variability overpowers and obscures any role CO2 may play in the warming and what role CO2 does play is largely beneficial (a literal greening of the planet)

Now you’re making stuff up because that’s not what I said you said. You specifically said you CAN’T HAVE natural variability and global warming. You said it could only possibly be one or the other. And not just once, you’ve said over an over again that CO2 arming can’t be real if one year is ever colder than the year before. So again, why should anyone listen to anything you say about climate?

 

But hey, if we do talk about your article what do we have? You, Mr Free Market uber alles guy saying hey look at all these farmers mad that their diesel subsidies were taken away - this is what happens when idealism hits reality! But… it’s your idealism being protested against, isn’t it?

[olofscience 480]

34 minutes ago, billvon said:

1) Everything here is effectively an opinion piece.

I meant, using opinion pieces as sources.

But yeah, fair point. Brent is the kind of person to even cherry-pick quotes to completely reverse their meaning so he could say he "quoted wikipedia".

[wmw999 2,447]

6 hours ago, brenthutch said:

when the abstract concept of “saving the planet”

We’re not saving the planet. We’re trying to protect a future that’s an incremental change rather than a large shift. Because a large shift is likely to increase wars and (heaven help us) population migration. That whole prevention/cure thing.

But as long as bad things only happen to someone else (generally poorer or far away), it’s human nature to think one’s own wish for comfort at every moment is more important.

Wendy P. 

[gowlerk 2,192]

3 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

We’re not saving the planet.

Yup. The planet will be just fine with or without more or less billions of us. The planet could not care less. If it gets warmer and wetter for a million years or so until the changes we have wrought are balanced out does not matter. Party on Brent.

[johnhking1 96]

19 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The planet will be just fine with or without more or less billions of us. The planet could not care less. If it gets warmer and wetter for a million years or so until the changes we have wrought are balanced out does not matter.

George Carlin sums it up in about 2 minutes.

https://www.google.com/search?q=george+carlin%2C+the+world+will+shake+us+pff+like+a+bad+case+of+fleas&rlz=1C1PRFI_enUS786US788&oq=george+carlin%2C+the+world+will+shake+us+pff+like+a+bad+case+of+fleas&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTI1MzE5ajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:5e6a19b6,vid:6vGE73tTSVU,st:0

[kallend 2,027]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

1) Everything here is effectively an opinion piece.

2) If you don't know by now that BH posts misinformation specifically to troll people - I don't know what to tell you.  Put him on ignore.  Or just avoid reading his stuff.

SURPRISE!

[JoeWeber 2,720]

44 minutes ago, kallend said:

SURPRISE!

Okay, John, I take it back. You do have a sense of humor.

[kallend 2,027]

Warmest winter on record for the USA.  Who would have guessed?

https://www.noaa.gov/news/us-had-its-warmest-winter-on-record

When was it that the warming stopped?  Anyone?  Anyone?

[brenthutch 444]

On 3/8/2024 at 6:50 PM, kallend said:

Warmest winter on record for the USA.  Who would have guessed?

https://www.noaa.gov/news/us-had-its-warmest-winter-on-record

When was it that the warming stopped?  Anyone?  Anyone?

China got all of our cold weather 

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-xinjiang-battles-harshest-cold-spell-over-six-decades-2024-02-19/#:~:text=BEIJING%2C Feb 19 (Reuters),the Lunar New Year holiday.

[olofscience 480]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

China got all of our cold weather 

If there was only something we could do to account for that...

 

Maybe we can use some math to find the overall trend! Call it..."averaging".

 

Nah, who am I kidding.

[billvon 2,991]

On 3/8/2024 at 3:50 PM, kallend said:

Warmest winter on record for the USA.  Who would have guessed?

https://www.noaa.gov/news/us-had-its-warmest-winter-on-record

When was it that the warming stopped?  Anyone?  Anyone?

But . . . but  . . . it's 27F in Buffalo NY today!  That's got to be record cold!  Right?

So much for "warmest winter on record" woke losurs!

[ryoder 1,590]

I wonder if the Cleveland Fox News affiliate got approval from Fox corporate before they ran this story:

Data: All 5 Great Lakes at record lows for ice cover

[billvon 2,991]

For the 10th straight month, global monthly temperature averages have broken records.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/us/broken-record-march-is-10th-straight-month-to-be-hottest-on-record-scientists-say/ar-BB1liClz