Economics of buying NEW rig

[mjosparky 4]

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I've flown other canopies at 1.2 and that load factor is not a problem.

Where have I heard that before?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Boomerdog 0]

I also said I would not go any higher. Had three jumps with the new rig yesterday. Yup, the load factor brings me in a little faster...I expected that. I also had the advise and approval from my instructors at the DZ. My regrets if I did not make that plain.

[nutellaontoast 0]

If you're really that worried about your neck/back, you should think carefully about skydiving at all. Dacron lines might help, but skydiving is hard on your spine no matter what.

When I was 23, with no history of back problems and in good physical shape, an unexplained hard opening DESTROYED my back - three herniations. I was in recovery for years. The canopy was a Pilot 188. Pilots are notorious for their very soft, long openings.

Not trying to dissuade you. I kept jumping. I broke my back again on a bad landing. And I still jump.

But don't kid yourself on the risks.

Don't let the fact that I sound like I think that I know what I'm talking about fool you. I know that I don't know what I'm talking about

[proky100 0]

Thank you all for input on this subject. Good or bad. This wasn’t about buying new versus old equipment. It was more about looking at some numbers for people like me purchasing new rig. It hurts up front but not so much in a long run.
I was looking into everything that was said, some was little harsh and do agree that 170 would be good for me in future but not just yet. Order has been changed to 190 and unfortunately Dacron lines had to go. I just came back down from few jumps and can’t wait to go next weekend again. I love this time of year in Florida.

to nutellaontoast: I know that feeling but remember that we only live once. How, is up to us. I refuse to lay low, I want to live. Hope you stay in one piece.

[voilsb 1]

proky100

Order has been changed to 190 and unfortunately Dacron lines had to go.

If you changed the main order, why not change the container order? "Hey , I changed my main to a Spectre 190 with 550 dacron lines. Do I need to go one size up for my container too, or will that work?" and then either go one size up on your container (since it's new, not used, and you therefore have this option) or not, if it'll still fit.

Brian

[airtwardo 7]

proky100

Thank you all for input on this subject. Good or bad. This wasn’t about buying new versus old equipment. It was more about looking at some numbers for people like me purchasing new rig. It hurts up front but not so much in a long run.
I was looking into everything that was said, some was little harsh and do agree that 170 would be good for me in future but not just yet. Order has been changed to 190 and unfortunately Dacron lines had to go. I just came back down from few jumps and can’t wait to go next weekend again. I love this time of year in Florida.

to nutellaontoast: I know that feeling but remember that we only live once. How, is up to us. I refuse to lay low, I want to live. Hope you stay in one piece.

Some unsolicited advise from an old guy with rods & screws in is spine...

Get the largest possible pocket slider put on that canopy & get some real world practical training on how to pack for slow openings.

I did some jumps with Steve Snyder before he hung it up, he praised my openings so much he wouldn't allow anyone else to pack for him but me, technique matters! I'd bet his back was worse than yours.

~ if ya never heard the name Steve Snyder - Google it.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[NWFlyer 2]

proky100

Thank you all for input on this subject. Good or bad. This wasn’t about buying new versus old equipment. It was more about looking at some numbers for people like me purchasing new rig. It hurts up front but not so much in a long run.

For anyone who's going to stay in the sport for a reasonable length of time and do a decent number of jumps per year, buying is always going to trump renting unless you've got some crazy-cheap rental deal. And if you want to buy new, more power to you. Of course your analysis makes buying new look better than renting, because it is. But don't try to pretend it's a complete analysis, because you left out the option that pencils out better than new, which is (as many others have pointed out) buying some or all of your components used.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[monkycndo 0]

Hey old man, how did my pack jobs open?

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[airtwardo 7]

monkycndo

Hey old man, how did my pack jobs open?

Linetwist

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[wildcard451 0]

To the OP:

Please waste your money and buy new. It allows people like me to go through 12 years of jumping and not buy new gear. I love the discount I get on 1 year old stuff as people feel the need to keep downsizing and buying new again.

Now that I am finally near the limits of changes in my gear, I am pondering buying my first custom container ever. I just have to get around to ordering it.

/only bought 1 new canopy ever, jumped it for 80 jumps, and gave someone a good deal on it, as I got a great deal on it new

[billvon 2,991]

>Have fun with your overpriced new gear. Have fun packing a brand new canopy for
>your first 100 pack jobs. Have fun watching it sit and not move an inch when you try
>to sell it because you think that someone out there is going to fit into your 'jigsaw'
>puzzle for any reasonable amount of money.

Hey, if he has the money, why not? Not everyone has to worry about what things cost. We had a guy who ordered seven new (and identical) orange and red Vectors after he graduated because he had the money and seven was his lucky number. Talk about a rig that's never going to sell . . . .

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

You can do whatever kind of math you want to justify the purchase, but new will never make more financial sense than used in good condition.

I bought my first rig about 10 years ago, shortly after I started. 7 or 8 years old, I was the third owner (it was 2 previous peoples "first rig"). The CYPRES was just out of it's 4 year check (2nd owner had put it in).
It is now in the process of being inspected by a prospective buyer. Selling price is $1000 less than what I paid. If you discount the CYPRES, I'm taking a $200 charge. 10 years, ~250 jumps, lots of fun. I've had to get it repacked, CYPRES checks (until the CYPRES died), new BOC pouch because the old one stretched out. Basic rig maintenance.

I blew $6k on a new rig (used main, everything else new) a couple years ago. No regrets on the expense, but I know perfectly well it doesn't make financial sense. I could have bought a used container for a lot less. Even if I had gotten the harness resized, I could have saved a bunch of money going used. So I know where you are coming from wanting new.

But it doesn't make sense from a financial point of view.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Ron 10]

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All I was trying to say is that if you take price of a new gear and divide it by years you could use it, it doesn’t look so bad.

And if you take used gear and do the same math it looks even better.

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Instead of trying to bring me down, helping would be a better solution.

Who is bringing you down? I told you several times that you can do what you want.... I have just taken umbrage at your claim that it can be a good deal.

If buying new gear is a good deal, then buying used is knocking it out of the park.

Why NOT buy new?

1. It will lose value. My first used rig was 2000 dollars. I traded it in for a 1500 dollar credit. That credit was put on a new rig...... That rig I jumped for a few years and sold the rig at a MUCH larger loss than the first rig.

2. You have no idea what size canopy you will end up on. Because of that, buying new is going to cost you a lot. You have already decided the 170 was too small and that you would get a 190. a GREAT choice for safety, but if you now want a 170 you are going to lose a bunch of money on the 190.

You seem to think I have something against you... Nope, don't know you. But the old "New gear is a better deal" os an OLD argument and time after time it has been proven to be false in most cases.

Really.... I wish you nothing but happiness. But please don't try to sell others a worn out and easily proven false claim.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Alexg3265 0]

My wife and I both jump. We went through the aff at the same time and decided to buy gear at the same time as well. We decided to go all used at first. My rig I found almost new with a main that I was able to sell and buy something a size up. My wife's rig was, well it just didn't fit right. That lasted 50 jumps and I got tired of hearing it and we ordered her a new icon. She loves it and it's fucking pink! Yay! I since have bought a new Safire 2 to replace the 18 year old sabre, which I sold.
The wait sucks , but pay it now or later... I have gone through 3 used mains and then ended up with the safire2. She is actually waiting on hers to be finished and we will be selling her hornet 150. Anyone want it?
Bottom line, if you buy used, it's a gamble at times. It can work out really well like my container or be like hers...

I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Alexg3265

My wife's rig was, well it just didn't fit right. That lasted 50 jumps and I got tired of hearing it and we ordered her a new icon. She loves it and it's fucking pink! Yay! I since have bought a new Safire 2 to replace the 18 year old sabre, which I sold.

A new harness installed by the manufacturer for $400 is a lot less expensive than a new container, although the resulting rig would not be pin unless it started that that way.

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Bottom line, if you buy used, it's a gamble at times. It can work out really well like my container or be like hers...

You can usually try on gear before buying, and where that's not practical you can call the manufacturer with the serial number, your measurements as if ordering a new rig, and ask how it's likely to work for you.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

davelepka

First off, used is used, but it's also inspected and repacked every 6 mos. by a rigger, and if you're smart it's inspected before you buy, so there is no risk in terms of the safety factor over a new rig. Keep in mind that everyone who owns the equipment is putting their life on the line when they jump it, and will tend to take care of it accordingly.

Buying used is probably lower risk since manufacturing errors should have been found before the rig got to you.

I knew a woman who opened and was sitting really strangely in her harness. It turns out they left some essential stitching off that rig.

[Nataly 38]

Is buying used a gamble? Not really. It's like anything... Keep an eye open and eventually you will find what you want. I got my rig from a guy who bought new, put less than 20 jumps on it and decided skydiving wasn't for him. Which is not so surprising... A first rig is something a lot of people want to move on from quickly (either to downsize or even to quit the sport) - so "almost-new" (and much less expensive) beginner gear is not all that hard to find unless you're feakishly tall/short/fat/skinny. In my case it was an awesome deal because the guy didn't care about money - he just wanted the rig to have a happy new owner
Something to think about in your calculation: a first rig is like a first car or motorcycle... Do you really want to be making all your mistakes on shiny new gear?? Because believe me... You will tumble, and you will get that beautiful rig all dirty/stained, and that is *so* much more heart-breaking on expensive, brand-new kit... So is cutting away and losing your main... Et cetera, et cetera.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[DrDom 0]

Nataly

Is buying used a gamble? Not really. It's like anything... Keep an eye open and eventually you will find what you want. I got my rig from a guy who bought new, put less than 20 jumps on it and decided skydiving wasn't for him. Which is not so surprising... A first rig is something a lot of people want to move on from quickly (either to downsize or even to quit the sport) - so "almost-new" (and much less expensive) beginner gear is not all that hard to find unless you're feakishly tall/short/fat/skinny. In my case it was an awesome deal because the guy didn't care about money - he just wanted the rig to have a happy new owner
Something to think about in your calculation: a first rig is like a first car or motorcycle... Do you really want to be making all your mistakes on shiny new gear?? Because believe me... You will tumble, and you will get that beautiful rig all dirty/stained, and that is *so* much more heart-breaking on expensive, brand-new kit... So is cutting away and losing your main... Et cetera, et cetera.

I feel bad for the guys at SNE that have to deal with my rig that gets muddy and dirty as hell on every PLF landing...

I'm glad it's not mine =D

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[DJL 235]

One problem with buying new straight away is that you haven't been in the sport long enough to know what you really prefer; you may realize that your rig is too big for the canopy you're going to jump for the long term or there's a rig option that want. My advice is to go used for the first rig so you're not spending a ton of cash on something you'll grow out of.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[mrbang 0]

Hey, i want to buy my own gear as well. But i want to buy used at first simply because i do not know what i need exactly.

So i'm going to buy a generic container, with rsl, aad, main canopy form 200 to 260 square ft, reserve chute. Actually i do not mind the main chute size (and downsizing) and i plan to use the gear for a couple of year at least.


I will wait to buy it until i get the license (feb/mar 2014).

Do you guys bought your rigs just after you got the license?

Matt

[mx19 0]

Good choice! I bought a brand new wings for my first rig with a 175 reserve and 170 safire main and i used that container all the way down to jumping a crossfire2 119 and over 1000 jumps with absolutely no safety issues, then sold it when i got company gear and didn't lose much at all....

[JohnMitchell 16]

JasonYergin

Where's that picture of the little kid throwing stacks of money out the window... the one with the caption about how that's pretty much what skydiving is, or that's how you get good at it?


http://thedropzonediaries.tumblr.com/post/44000911223

Reminds me of the old joke when a whuffo says "What do you do if the weather is bad on the weekend and you can't jump?"

"Well, I throw myself down the stairs, stuff a dirty sock in my mouth and burn a couple of hundred dollar bills. It's just like I went to the drop zone."

[excaza 1]

JohnMitchell

Reminds me of the old joke when a whuffo says "What do you do if the weather is bad on the weekend and you can't jump?"

"Well, I throw myself down the stairs, stuff a dirty sock in my mouth and burn a couple of hundred dollar bills. It's just like I went to the drop zone."

That's much better than us, usually we just sit around and try to throw rocks into a bottle. People are starting to pick up remote control planes though, I can't wait until someone decides to get a jet!