Victor Kovats

[piisfish 140]

We have wingsuits, we have BASE, we have tandems. Take any 2 of these, they have been mixed.
Next step is mix the three.
Logical addition will be wingsuit proxy tandem BASE.
Sad loss once more, unfortunately not much to learn probably. Yet another hard reminder that speed and proximity of hard stuff don't mix well

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[billvon 3,006]

Moving this thread not because of the BASE issue but because it does not discuss the incident.

In general we do not use Incidents for BASE fatalities. When the BASE jumper is doing something that skydivers often do (like proximity flying either in a wingsuit or under canopy) we will often keep the post in Incidents since skydivers can learn from it as well. However, if it's due to (for example) an object strike after exit that is a purely BASE issue and thus not appropriate.

[nigel99 501]

gowlerk

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I only say this because more and more people are getting into skydiving with the sole purpose of one day being like the guys on youtube. So if they see the risks before they have to experience something like this firsthand (weather a personal friend or themselves), they might not ever take the risk to begin with.

This is actually part of the reason not to cover these incidents here. We don't want to scare away new people before they start. Even if unrealistic videos are what first attracts them they will soon enough learn some realities as they progress. As Bluhdow says, it's an adult sport. We don't need to protect and inform potential skydivers from things that are not skydiving.

I completely agree. The skydiving demographic has changed since the early days. I'm not a base jumper and have no interest in learning their lessons, not a paragliding pilot either and the same applies.

I think it is key to realise there are people working full time and slowly it is being accepted as mainstream allowing insurance and medical cover to a much greater degree than in the past. For example my life insurance covers skydiving with no extra premium. The base fatalities should be clearly identified and isolated to their own forum, to prevent clouding statistics and the assumptions of whuffos.

Very sorry to hear about his death and I'm sure he'll be missed.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[elias123 0]

I agree with Sinjin about the media thing. Plus you can make some clear conclusions by the Dialymotion video. FIP Vick. I am grateful I got to meet and jump with you in Hungary. BSBD!

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[JoeyH 0]

elias123

I agree With Sinjin about the media thing. Plus you can make some clear conclusions by the dialymotion video. FIP Vick. I am grateful I got to meet and jump with you in Hunagry. BSBD

I agree with sinjin as well, but all you can see from the dailymotion vid is that he suddenly left the line and went into the trees. Wind gusts are an extremely likely cause of what we saw.

Carpe Diem, even if it kills me

[3mpire 0]

Quote

No matter how much everyone hates youtube, there just aren't kids buying suits and climbing local antennas without going through the proper channels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2_SNnSqzvk

granted not a wing suit...

[Bluhdow 31]

I believe his rig was "confiscated" by local jumpers. Also, it's a rare enough example that it made ILS.com.

That said, it's a valid retort. A retort which begs the question, "Would he have acted any differently if he read a thread about a fatality at a WWL event?"

I don't know for sure. But I doubt it.

Apex BASE
#1816

[sinjin 0]

it was NOT a wind gust. let it go man. RIP Vi ck.

dont let life pass you by

[3mpire 0]

I don't know if the guy in question is literate or not

you seemed a little wound up so I couldn't resit pokin' ya with a stick.

I don't think anything posted or not posted on the internet will do much to change behavior on a societal level. If it did, every new post in the incident thread would be unique.

that said... i don't think anything posted or not posted on the internet will do much to change behavior on a societal level so it wouldn't kill anyone to let the post stand, either.

I figure if they left a flying vehicle it's a skydive if they left something attached to the ground it's BASE. incidents on here for flying, general discussion or bj.com (rimshot) for BASE.

but I try not to get too worked up about categorization. life is too short.

[elias123 0]

It's very difficult to see what happenned, and I have to admit I have no idea what went wrong, but to me it looks like he might have approached with a bit to much speed and got low, then stalled while still having to make the turn. I personally don't think a gust of wind had anything to do with it, but it's still a possibility.

When I saw the last episode of the WWL webseries where they talk about what the race course would be like, I already got scared at how technical and demanding that jump was going to be, especially in a competition watched by millions and a 50,000 dollar prize at the finish line. Sad to see that fear has come true.

I also thought from the very beginning, when the first WWL was announced, that wingsuit proximity racing for big money is a bad idea. That's just my personal opinion.

Robert made a nice statement on a thread going on on the ProBase Worldcup Facebook page, with which I tend to agree.

"Whole format need to be reconsidered. F1, downhill skiing, Reno air race .. all this sports events has way out and margin. Terrain flying WS races does not have margin, especially in combination with ''all in'' approach by jumpers from jump 1. It is not question of the GPS, choper, meeting , etc... it is about pure fact that as community we arent there , we arent ready yet to implement and fly lines which has traps. I have feeling that people kinda forgetting that WS is the flying toy , but very limited flying toy!"

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[JoeyH 0]

That is a good possibility as well. I am not saying that gusts are for sure what happened, but every possibility should be left open. ya know?

Carpe Diem, even if it kills me

[elias123 0]

Yes of course, definitely.

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[Divalent 137]

I don't think any single fatality, in any sport, will serve as much of a reminder of how dangerous it is, because all sports have them. Who's to say this particular incident wasn't just a one-off fluke. New skydiving fatalities occur about once every 2-3 weeks, but no single one of them tells you the overall risk of the sport.

Better is when the data are aggregated and presented in a way that drives home that point. Here is one attempt for wingsuit proxy flying:

First watch this video, one of the best (IMO, the best) Wingsuit proximity flying compilations ever made. (Aside: this video was my inspiration to restart skydiving training after a 37 year pause.)

http://vimeo.com/18150336

Incredible stuff (and a well made video). Stop the video near the end when the credits display the names of the 13 wingsuiters that were shown in the video. These are 13 of the best of the best in the sport at the time. Now cross reference those names with the BFL. You'll discover that 4 of those 13 "best of the best", 30% of them, are now dead from accidents jumping off of mountains (3 in wingsuits, 1 tracking). Mirko Schmidt, Ted Rudd, Eliv Ruud, and Florian Pays. All in a span of about 27 months.

In a typical recent year the USPA loses about 0.06% of it's members to fatal incidents. In this group of the most skilled and experienced wingsuit proxy flyers in the world, the rate has been greater than 10% a year. Sobering.

BTW, find the title of the soundtrack song; it's listed in the credits below the video. I thought of that title when I saw the video of Kovats' fatal flight.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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The risks of BASE and WS BASE are very well documented here:

http://www.blincmagazine.com/...i/BASE_Fatality_List

Any adult who has spent 3 minutes researching BASE will see this list and begin to understand the risks involved.

I doubt that. There is no information/statistics collected about people getting permanent health issues or disabled in BASE.

Dying is the easy part, so you don't have to live together with the consequences of the bad decisions you made.

[shorehambeach 9]

piisfish

Logical addition will be wingsuit proxy tandem BASE.

[Di0 2]

Divalent

Who's to say this particular incident wasn't just a one-off fluke. New skydiving fatalities occur about once every 2-3 weeks, but no single one of them tells you the overall risk of the sport.

No, but the 2-3 weeks span does.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[Amazon 7]

JoeyH

Victor died in China while He was doing training jumps for the World Wingsuit League competitions. While this may be a wingsuit BASE fatality, I think it is important to address. It was just a gust of wind. That's all. It blew him off course and he wasn't able to pull. So what can this fatality teach skydiving wingsuiters and BASE jumping wingsuiters alike?

It is well to remember that when playing ROCK-speed-meatsack......( think rock paper scissors)................ ROCK always trumps meatsack.

Playing chicken with the hard bits of our planet can do nasty things to meatsack... lets be careful out there kiddies when trying to get cool video for your youtube channel.


How many dead friends do we have...with them trying to get cool video???

[FB1609 0]

shorehambeach

***
Logical addition will be wingsuit proxy tandem BASE.

I'd imagine right now there's people out there that would pay $10,000+ for a ride, so it will probably happen eventually, when things evolve to that point. Not any time soon I hope!

[normiss 806]

Story is now on CNN front page

[Bluhdow 31]

Whatever you do, don't read the comments section.

Apex BASE
#1816

[cessnasoloy 0]

http://www.aol.de/video/video-zeigt-tdlichen-absturz-mit-wingsuit/517965613/

RIP

[normiss 806]

Appears to only be viewable in Germany.