billvon 3,068
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Marisan 0
Hi Billvon,
And what is the final conclusion when someone hooks in and kills himself.
That he was an idiot and deserved it so we don't have to do or learn anything?
Looking at the figures in the "Canopy with the most Fatalities" thread it seems we have our own forktailed doctor killers
And what is the final conclusion when someone hooks in and kills himself.
That he was an idiot and deserved it so we don't have to do or learn anything?
Looking at the figures in the "Canopy with the most Fatalities" thread it seems we have our own forktailed doctor killers
billvon 3,068
>And what is the final conclusion when someone hooks in and kills himself.
Depends on the circumstances. Often it is someone who does a last minute avoidance maneuver. Often it is someone who wants to hook it in to get a really cool landing and screws up. Sometimes it's due to turbulence, or gear problems, or not being able to see well enough. All too often we never know which of the above it is, because there's no one to tell us what happened.
>That he was an idiot and deserved it so we don't have to do or learn anything?
Sometimes, yes. Sometimes we see it coming and no one can do anything to stop it. There are a few people on this forum like that.
>Looking at the figures in the "Canopy with the most Fatalities" thread it seems we
>have our own forktailed doctor killers
Yep. If you want to kill yourself, there are several canopies that excel at that.
Depends on the circumstances. Often it is someone who does a last minute avoidance maneuver. Often it is someone who wants to hook it in to get a really cool landing and screws up. Sometimes it's due to turbulence, or gear problems, or not being able to see well enough. All too often we never know which of the above it is, because there's no one to tell us what happened.
>That he was an idiot and deserved it so we don't have to do or learn anything?
Sometimes, yes. Sometimes we see it coming and no one can do anything to stop it. There are a few people on this forum like that.
>Looking at the figures in the "Canopy with the most Fatalities" thread it seems we
>have our own forktailed doctor killers
Yep. If you want to kill yourself, there are several canopies that excel at that.
Come on you guys. You CAN do it. You CAN build a safety culture in Skydiving.
Start today!
If you're really that interested in doing something - then do something.
If you're not going to take action then this is just more hot air, and there's plenty of that in these forums.
FWIW I do like your idea of having to qualify to move up to a different canopy - I think it would force the hot shots to work hard to be able to fly the "trophy canopies".
Seems to me, He's doing something by starting this thread and taking the fight to the street (well, virtual street anyway). Sometimes the best way to affect change is to become a "squeaky gear". Marisan is under attack by those who disagree with him. ... that’s ok by me, it just adds to the conversation. He’s also been under fire in this thread by those who don't seem to want change. Those are the attacks I’m worried about.
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Marisan has nothing (personally) to gain by his actions/postings here. I applaud his effort!!
Birdshit & Fools Productions
"Son, only two things fall from the sky."
"Son, only two things fall from the sky."
Another point that I have been thinking for a while,
How many deaths per skydive statistic is from the old times and now days.
Bryan Burke mention locals in Skydive Arizona are 1/346.667 to die in a skydive, and locals 1/67.829
Now that's a lot of skydives.
Back in the days how many skydives actually occur in a year and what would be the probability of likely to die during a skydive. Maybe we are actually a lot more safer than we where back in the day, even with this high performance canopy.
Also, I know Icarus has a lot of information on canopy training on their website, free of charge to anyone who has access to internet.
Any DZO or jumper could print them off and bring them to the DZ.
How many deaths per skydive statistic is from the old times and now days.
Bryan Burke mention locals in Skydive Arizona are 1/346.667 to die in a skydive, and locals 1/67.829
Now that's a lot of skydives.
Back in the days how many skydives actually occur in a year and what would be the probability of likely to die during a skydive. Maybe we are actually a lot more safer than we where back in the day, even with this high performance canopy.
Also, I know Icarus has a lot of information on canopy training on their website, free of charge to anyone who has access to internet.
Any DZO or jumper could print them off and bring them to the DZ.
Seems to me, He's doing something by starting this thread and taking the fight to the street ....
It's all been talked about ad nauseam. He is not doing anything new. It's just a waste of time.
I'm just suggesting that he take action of some kind instead of talking about it if he really is that bothered by the status quo.
Marisan 0
Seems to me, He's doing something by starting this thread and taking the fight to the street ....
It's all been talked about ad nauseam. He is not doing anything new. It's just a waste of time.
I'm just suggesting that he take action of some kind instead of talking about it if he really is that bothered by the status quo.
For about the 5th time!
I don't jump anymore.
I have no intention of jumping anymore
I don't have the knowledge or authority to do something about it.
I don't even live in your country.
You, however DO jump.
You have the knowledge and authority.
I handed off safety in this sport to you guys when I gave up.
And what the fuck have you guys done with the responsibility that I and all of the other old farts passed down to you?
I'll tell you what you've done. Sweet Fuck All!
You either:
1/ Deny there is a problem.
2/ Say it doesn't apply to me.
3/ Say you can't do anything about it.
Well there is a problem, it does apply to you and you fucking well CAN do something about it.
There has been thread after thread on this subject and I'm sure there will be many more. It will continue until YOU guys man up and sort out the problem. Only YOU can do it!
Now go and talk to that guy with the " Mad Skillz" and tell him that he actually isn't that skilled. (Refer him to the incident thread if he doubts you)
Point out what the body of someone that bounces looks like and that you REALLY REALLY DON'T want to see that again!
If that doesn't work talk to the DZ Safety people. (Point out the amount of paperwork that they, and the DZO, will have to do when the inevitable happens.)
As a last resort, refuse to jump with the fuckwit.
See how long he likes paying for a turbine to altitude all by himself.
The solution is in YOUR hands.
So do something about it unless you consider the Incident Thread as Bounce Porn.
billvon 3,068
>I handed off safety in this sport to you guys when I gave up.
What did you do?
>I'll tell you what you've done. Sweet Fuck All!
Again, what did you do?
What did you do?
>I'll tell you what you've done. Sweet Fuck All!
Again, what did you do?
Marisan 0
>I handed off safety in this sport to you guys when I gave up.
What did you do?
>I'll tell you what you've done. Sweet Fuck All!
Again, what did you do?
The more relevant question billvon is: what are YOU doing?
Oh sorry I've already answered that!
>Special without the rating. 5 minutes later he is (To steal Aggie Dave's sig line) "Dead
>surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
>What happens then? A major investigation eventuates, lessons are learned,
>regulations are overhauled and (maybe) sanctions are applied. This happens even with
>injuries.
No, it doesn't - not when the final conclusion was "he was an idiot." The Bonanza wasn't called the "doctor killer" for no good reason, and nowadays it's the Cirrus that's killing people disproportionately. It's a sexy plane that people with C152 skills can buy and quite quickly get in over their heads.
People with more money than sense regularly buy aircraft they can't handle and kill themselves. Indeed, on a fatality per-participant basis, general aviation is more dangerous than skydiving.
So if your point is "you have to self-police to get to the safety level of general aviation" - we've already done it. And if the FAA really is going to get involved with something, it's going to be general aviation, so they can bring it up to the safety level of skydiving.
(Needless to say, neither is a safe sport at the end of the day.)
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