Learning experience..

[Koric101 0]

Over the weekend had a skydive that got my heart racing a bit. Under a good canopy and trying to give the guys above me some clearance went to spiral down from 1600 into the pattern. During a steep toggle turn felt a gust hit me just after I started the turn and spun me into about 1 1/2 line twists.

The twists kept me in a slight turn (not a high performance canopy, loaded at about 1.1) and on instinct I was kicking before I knew it. The kicks were immediately having an effect so I decided to give myself a few more seconds and was able to kick out at about 1200 after 5 or 6 seconds. I overheard a few other jumpers talking about the turbulence on that jump as well.

I'm sure there are plenty of arguments to say chop immediately in a situation like that and I'm not here to say right or wrong just what I went with at the time. It just goes to show and enforce in me, that it's no time to get complacent just because you are under a good canopy, it can change in a heartbeat. It was definitely an experience that I will learn from and if this helps any other newer jumpers be more prepared for what might happen, I feel it's worth sharing.

If anyone has similar experiences or suggestions feel free to post, I'm always open to consider other points of view.

[NWFlyer 2]

It's much more likely that your (self-described) "steep toggle turn" induced the line twists than did a gust of wind.

Different lesson learned: avoid aggressive toggle turns below an altitude at which you're willing to execute your EPs.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Koric101 0]

Agreed. I didn't mean to say it was the winds fault. It was absolutely the aggressive low toggle turn that put me in this situation. I've done quite a bit of flying on this canopy including two canopy courses and not had this issue so I feel the wind may have played a part or been the straw that broke the camel's back, but still, it was a poor decision to put myself in that position to begin with and I don't intend to again.

[godfrog 2]

I have a canopy that I load about the same and if I do an agressive toggle turn approaching 360 degrees it will twist up, the first time I did it I was test flying it then I had to do it again and watched very closely to what was happening. I didn't cut away either time.
evaluate where you are, your hard deck etc. and what did your instructor say about abrupt manuevers when?

Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward

[Koric101 0]

Well, I've done quite a few high pulls and aggressive maneuvers up high with this canopy and never had an issue but I had heard of it happening to others. It's not much of an issue up high if it happened but I shouldn't have been quite so aggressive as low as I was, or used fronts instead.

On a side note to the experienced guys out there, as I understand, using fronts reduces the chances of this happening, correct? It feels like a much more stable turn as well.

[LyraM45 0]

NWFlyer

It's much more likely that your (self-described) "steep toggle turn" induced the line twists than did a gust of wind.

Different lesson learned: avoid aggressive toggle turns below an altitude at which you're willing to execute your EPs.

+1

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[dthames 0]

Koric101

Over the weekend had a skydive that got my heart racing a bit. Under a good canopy and trying to give the guys above me some clearance went to spiral down from 1600 into the pattern. During a steep toggle turn felt a gust hit me just after I started the turn and spun me into about 1 1/2 line twists.

The twists kept me in a slight turn (not a high performance canopy, loaded at about 1.1) and on instinct I was kicking before I knew it. The kicks were immediately having an effect so I decided to give myself a few more seconds and was able to kick out at about 1200 after 5 or 6 seconds. I overheard a few other jumpers talking about the turbulence on that jump as well.

I'm sure there are plenty of arguments to say chop immediately in a situation like that and I'm not here to say right or wrong just what I went with at the time. It just goes to show and enforce in me, that it's no time to get complacent just because you are under a good canopy, it can change in a heartbeat. It was definitely an experience that I will learn from and if this helps any other newer jumpers be more prepared for what might happen, I feel it's worth sharing.

If anyone has similar experiences or suggestions feel free to post, I'm always open to consider other points of view.

Good thing to share this, regardless of cause or decisions. Thanks for sharing what you learned.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[DrDom 0]

dthames

Good thing to share this, regardless of cause or decisions. Thanks for sharing what you learned.

Agreed, thank you!

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[hillson 0]

Koric101

Over the weekend had a skydive that got my heart racing a bit. Under a good canopy and trying to give the guys above me some clearance went to spiral down from 1600 into the pattern.

I'd advise rethinking the bolded part. At many dropzones - particularly larger operations - there can exist an area of converging traffic as groups setup for proper pattern entry...a cone of airspace sort of like a "holding area." A lot of times you can find this between 1200-1500 feet...

Perhaps it wasn't an issue on *this* jump...182 load, first out, whatever...but still bad practice. I expect the "guys above me" to aviate and navigate appropriately. In turn, I expect people to assume that I'll pilot like a good citizen especially at the altitudes you mentioned. We can't control everybody...but we can do our part, keep our heads on a swivel, and not just hang there under the canopy like a side of beef.

At a light wingloading and aforementioned "non aggressive" canopy you could be looking at up to 540-720 degrees of rotation to lose that much altitude. That is a lot of time and altitude - down low - where you're not seeing all you should be seeing.

Anyhoo...be safe and add a little bit more to the knowledge bucket.

[Koric101 0]

hillson

***Over the weekend had a skydive that got my heart racing a bit. Under a good canopy and trying to give the guys above me some clearance went to spiral down from 1600 into the pattern.

I'd advise rethinking the bolded part. At many dropzones - particularly larger operations - there can exist an area of converging traffic as groups setup for proper pattern entry...a cone of airspace sort of like a "holding area." A lot of times you can find this between 1200-1500 feet...

Perhaps it wasn't an issue on *this* jump...182 load, first out, whatever...but still bad practice. I expect the "guys above me" to aviate and navigate appropriately. In turn, I expect people to assume that I'll pilot like a good citizen especially at the altitudes you mentioned. We can't control everybody...but we can do our part, keep our heads on a swivel, and not just hang there under the canopy like a side of beef.

At a light wingloading and aforementioned "non aggressive" canopy you could be looking at up to 540-720 degrees of rotation to lose that much altitude. That is a lot of time and altitude - down low - where you're not seeing all you should be seeing.

Anyhoo...be safe and add a little bit more to the knowledge bucket.

That is a fair point and I only did it as it was appropriate for this jump. I was in the holding area after being first out on a 2 way, the jumper I was with was on base leg and I could see the other groups down jump run about 500 ft above me and grouped up. Was trying to clear so they could separate as well, but typically I wouldn't dive like that in the holding area.

[AviationTD 0]

Quote

That is a fair point and I only did it as it was appropriate for this jump. I was in the holding area after being first out on a 2 way, the jumper I was with was on base leg and I could see the other groups down jump run about 500 ft above me and grouped up. Was trying to clear so they could separate as well, but typically I wouldn't dive like that in the holding area.

I got to ask you a question. If you wanted to give some space, why can't you enter standard pattern high and pull both front risers to burn altitude? Unless I am missing something here, the use of front risers is safer and will achieve the same goal that you focused on this jump without aggressive maneuvers.

[Koric101 0]

AviationTD

Quote

That is a fair point and I only did it as it was appropriate for this jump. I was in the holding area after being first out on a 2 way, the jumper I was with was on base leg and I could see the other groups down jump run about 500 ft above me and grouped up. Was trying to clear so they could separate as well, but typically I wouldn't dive like that in the holding area.

I got to ask you a question. If you wanted to give some space, why can't you enter standard pattern high and pull both front risers to burn altitude? Unless I am missing something here, the use of front risers is safer and will achieve the same goal that you focused on this jump without aggressive maneuvers.

That's an option, as well as a few others, including Toggles since my airspace was clear. It just boils down to knowing your canopy and not putting it in a situation like I did, and flying more conservatively down low.

[jurgencamps 0]

AviationTD

I got to ask you a question. If you wanted to give some space, why can't you enter standard pattern high and pull both front risers to burn altitude? Unless I am missing something here, the use of front risers is safer and will achieve the same goal that you focused on this jump without aggressive maneuvers.

Mmm, I hope that you have very strong arms.