uncocked pilot chute

[chachi 0]

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Does anybody, at anytime, in any publication, remember anything about reaching back and grabbing bridle as part of the EP's for a PC in tow?

i would do that in a second if i was towing. however, something you would have to consider yourself and i definitely do not advocate for junior jumpers.

[BIGUN 1,297]

The question was: "Does anybody, at anytime, in any publication, remember anything about reaching back and grabbing bridle as part of the EP's for a PC in tow?" Roger was a test jumper and so we don't know the the conditions of the test. Did he deploy at 7500, 5000? Considering that he did it in 1974 and it never migrated to becoming a point of instruction would seem to indicate it's not really condoned as an EP.

From a personal perspective, That is not a corrective measure and reaching around to grab bridle to clear the PC in tow relies more on luck than a history of proven success. We've all looked over our shoulder and seen the speed at which the bag and canopy deploys. Now, imagine as we reach around and grab the bridle, or there is enough drag on the uncocked PC and/or our hand is in proximity during deployment; whereby that drag pulling on the bridle results in our hand getting wrapped up in bridle or suspension lines during deployment.

Is there any probability that one can do significant damage to their arm, or socket - and haven't we created a horsehoe malfunction situation? We take the chance on having a shredded arm, a horseshoe malfunction and only one good hand to perform EP's. While all this is going on; should one pass thru AAD altitude, where is the reserve going to go? Around this mess?

Let's say we're lucky and one's hand/arm gets wrapped up at the lower end and the only result is a diving hook turn. We know we can't land a diving hook turn and we decide to chop it away. How many hands do we have left to do EP's? Let's say we're successful at doing EP's and get a good reserve over our head. What effect is having the main creating drag on one arm going to have on the reserve and how do we successfully land the reserve with that much drag?

OR, if we have a pc in tow, we can do the EP's we were taught and have a much higher probability that we get a good canopy over our head, land and go have a beer while the rigger repacks our reserve.

IMO... 120MPH and 12 seconds from the planet or 8 seconds from an AAD fire is not the time to get creative and develop new EP's or do in-flight rigging.

It's your life, you decide.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[packerboy 3]

Not to mention that whether you are left handed or right handed... the hand that you have caught in a horseshoe will most likely be one of the two hands you will need to perform proper EP's for a horeshoe malfunction.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Liemberg 0]

In retrospect, I wasn't all that clear in my post that was more or less 'trigered' by your first one.
It just made me think of Rogers post about the *first pilot chute in tow* and I thought it was kind of funny ...

I don't advocate 'clearing a PC in tow by reaching behind your back' - never did, never will.

I think it is plain stupid and the fact that some of us got away with it, doesn't change my opinion.

You did a good job of summing up all the reasons why, so I'm not repeating it.

This opinion was formed many years ago when 'bridle grabbing' WAS advocated. In fact I HAVE seen it IN WRITING in the Dutch skydivers magazine 'Sportparachutist' as a possible solution, when participants of the national championship were asked what they would do if they had a PC in tow.
(Again, 20+ years ago aprox...) In that same article someone said that if he couldn't clear it, he would barrel roll the bridle around his legs, prior to pulling his reserve...

Thrillseeker!

For me the interesting thing in THIS thread is that it shows once again that certain skydiving myths*) have an enormous resilience and are extremly hard to kill.

(Re: how the thread started AND Chachi @ 1000jumps who says he will try to clear it - yet doesn't say he has already an excellent track record with it...)


*) The fact that some people got away with it doesn't make it any less of a myth that it is a good plan "stricktly for the advanced" - GROUND DOESN'T GET ANY SOFTER AFTER +1000 JUMPS...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[Liemberg 0]

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one of the two hands you will need to perform proper EP's for a horeshoe malfunction.

If one hand is "missing", it is perfectly legal and even recommended by some to perform the EP's with the one remaining hand....

(Teeth? Feet?....)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[packerboy 3]

I was taught the one hand on each handle method, I guess I have to visualize the one hand for both handles method.

All kidding aside, I have touched my cutaway handle with my left hand and my reserve with my right in freefall before just to get a feel.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Liemberg 0]

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I have touched my cutaway handle with my left hand and my reserve with my right in freefall before just to get a feel.

Kuddo's to your instructor who taught you or kuddo's to you for finding out all by yourself...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[BIGUN 1,297]

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when participants of the national championship were asked what they would do if they had a PC in tow.
(Again, 20+ years ago aprox...) In that same article someone said that if he couldn't clear it, he would barrel roll the bridle around his legs, prior to pulling his reserve...

Ya know, I "think" I remember something about that being discussed at a round table session in the early 80's, but was quickly and decidely dismissed by one of the senior skygods of that era.

Speakin of rambo'ing down the S/L, there was also a time where your EP's included, placing your hand over the reserve flap, sticking your other hand behind the reserve to get "as much reserve possible" and then throwing it...

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Liemberg 0]

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there was also a time where your EP's included, placing your hand over the reserve flap, sticking your other hand behind the reserve to get "as much reserve possible" and then throwing it...

Now we wait until somebody tries this at home with his recently acquired 2006 rig and reports back to us...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[riggerrob 643]

Yes.
... and AFF/PFF Instructors are taught to "back hand" d-bags that are slow lifting off a student's back.
"Back handing"reduces the chance of tangling a hand in the deploying lines.

[lazy 0]

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when participants of the national championship were asked what they would do if they had a PC in tow.
(Again, 20+ years ago aprox...) In that same article someone said that if he couldn't clear it, he would barrel roll the bridle around his legs, prior to pulling his reserve...

Ya know, I "think" I remember something about that being discussed at a round table session in the early 80's, but was quickly and decidely dismissed by one of the senior skygods of that era.

Speakin of rambo'ing down the S/L, there was also a time where your EP's included, placing your hand over the reserve flap, sticking your other hand behind the reserve to get "as much reserve possible" and then throwing it...

they sait something like that when I was doing the round course last year thanks Ron and brord

[pierre3636 0]

havent followed the posts in a week or two - sorry i misssed on the whole thread ! just wanted to make one point clear - I DEFINaTELY DO NOT ADVOCATE CLEARING A PC IN TOW MANUALLY - i might consider depending on the situasion and altitude - but i sincerely dont think its the way to go (literally )

[niu 0]

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there was also a time where your EP's included, placing your hand over the reserve flap, sticking your other hand behind the reserve to get "as much reserve possible" and then throwing it...

Just for low-speed malfunctions with reserves that was not equipped with pilotchutes,if my memory does not fail me totally.
We were supposed to throw the top of the canopy in the direction of an eventual rotation(or was it the other way?) while holding on to the bottom seam to be able to "shake air into" the canopy.
The piggyback system with it`s simplified ep`s was a great relief.
Chop,pop,ready.

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[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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sometimes. If you decide to wait for it though you will die.

I have gotten away with it twice so far; once in a wingsuit! Shaking violently from side to side got the main out on both occasions. Ultimately, it's very dumb to not cock your PC.