Trump vs Hitler

[Hissone 6]

13 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, let's look at the facts of your assertions.

Afghanistan: The deal to withdraw the US was negotiated by Trump's minions. It was done without any consultation with the Afghans. Same with the release of 5k Taliban prisoners.
Trump withdrew all but a couple thousand US personnel before leaving office.
Trump himself bragged that he left Biden with no choice in the situation.

And Biden really didn't have any choice. He could continue the withdraw and leave Afghanistan to the Taliban, or he could try to send enough troops back to thwart the Taliban's intentions to take over.
But that would have basically been an invasion. 
The Taliban would have had the ability to stop the US from sending in troops by air (they would control the airports) and a ground invasion would have been a HUGE mess.

As far as the economic policies:
The Dow Jones Industrial Average has hit 40,000. 
Inflation has been brought under control. 
The Fed has decided to not raise interest rates. 
Job creation has blown every existing record completely out of the water.
Unemployment has been at levels not seen in a long time for longer than any time in the last 75 years.

Last, Biden has a stutter. A speech impediment. Anyone who understands what that is also understands that Biden's speech patterns are completely consistent with a stutter. 
He's shown a lot of intelligence and mental acuity. His State of the Union addresses have been works of art. His handling of the hecking by the 'Freedumb Coocoos' was masterful.

He HASN'T confused Jimmy Carter with Jimmy Connors. He HASN'T expressed admiration for a fictional cannibalistic serial killer. 

You, however, have done a very nice job of confirming my opinion.

Just curious do you agree with the president that 13 dead servicemen and over 150 dead civilians from a suicide bomber at Kabul airport is a success? Also the retaliation for the bombing led to a drone strike approved by the president that also killed a family of 10. 7 whom were children that had nothing to do with the bombing. Is that all a success and Trumps fault also? 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

28 minutes ago, Hissone said:

Just curious do you agree with the president that 13 dead servicemen and over 150 dead civilians from a suicide bomber at Kabul airport is a success? Also the retaliation for the bombing led to a drone strike approved by the president that also killed a family of 10. 7 whom were children that had nothing to do with the bombing. Is that all a success and Trumps fault also? 

Please show me where President Biden claimed a single dead serviceman as a success. Good luck doing that.  On the other hand Trump characterized our WWII war dead as losers and wouldn't visit the cemetery because not mussing his hair do was more important. 

[Hissone 6]

He said the withdrawal was a success this was part of the withdrawal.  Along with leaving how many people behind? 

[winsor 236]

1 hour ago, Hissone said:

He said the withdrawal was a success this was part of the withdrawal.  Along with leaving how many people behind? 

Plenty more where they came from.

[billvon 2,990]

1 hour ago, Hissone said:

He said the withdrawal was a success this was part of the withdrawal.

So you think the Trump negotiated withdrawal was a success?

[Hissone 6]

Biden is commander in chief of the military. He was in charge of the withdrawal. I completely supported the withdrawal from Afghanistan.  The process that it was carried out was horrible and reckless.  Where is the punishment for the people responsible for the bombing? Beside the family that was killed in a drone strike that had nothing to do with the bombing. Was that Trumps fault also? I’m not a fan of Trump at all and wish a different candidate would have been chosen but this is where we are.     

 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

2 hours ago, Hissone said:

He said the withdrawal was a success this was part of the withdrawal.  Along with leaving how many people behind? 

That is what is called moving the goal posts. If you are serious take 15 minutes and read his remarks on the withdrawal in full. 

Remarks by President Biden on the End o...e War in Afghanistan _ The White House.pdf

[billvon 2,990]

29 minutes ago, Hissone said:

Biden is commander in chief of the military. He was in charge of the withdrawal.

But not the terms of the withdrawal, like leaving all the military hardware there.  That was Trump.

Quote

I completely supported the withdrawal from Afghanistan.  The process that it was carried out was horrible and reckless.

So why do you support the guy who decided on the process?

Trump once said that he loved the poorly educated, and as memes like this propagate, it's clear that uninformed voters are his best weapon.

[Hissone 6]

I’m trying to understand. If Trump was responsible for all the gear being left behind,  the bombing at Kabul airport, all the civilians left behind,  the drone strike on the civilian family.  What was Biden’s responsibility during the withdrawal? Or is it anything bad is Trumps fault and if anything went good it’s Biden’s fault? That’s what it sounds like.  It must be a great job that you are the boss yet when something goes wrong it’s someone else’s fault. To be fair Trump does that as well. Neither show any type of actual leadership qualities. 

[wmw999 2,444]

7 minutes ago, Hissone said:

I’m trying to understand. If Trump was responsible for all the gear being left behind,  the bombing at Kabul airport, all the civilians left behind,  the drone strike on the civilian family.  What was Biden’s responsibility during the withdrawal? Or is it anything bad is Trumps fault and if anything went good it’s Biden’s fault? That’s what it sounds like.  It must be a great job that you are the boss yet when something goes wrong it’s someone else’s fault. To be fair Trump does that as well. Neither show any type of actual leadership qualities. 

Would you follow a formal legal agreement signed by your predecessor in business? Or would you just say fuck that I'm doing it my way? Do you expect the laws to work for others, or only for you?

How about if your predecessor signed a bad deal, but it was legal?

Wendy P. 

[kallend 2,026]

56 minutes ago, Hissone said:

I’m trying to understand. If Trump was responsible for all the gear being left behind,  the bombing at Kabul airport, all the civilians left behind,  the drone strike on the civilian family.  What was Biden’s responsibility during the withdrawal? Or is it anything bad is Trumps fault and if anything went good it’s Biden’s fault? That’s what it sounds like.  It must be a great job that you are the boss yet when something goes wrong it’s someone else’s fault. To be fair Trump does that as well. Neither show any type of actual leadership qualities. 

What part of "the details of the Doha accords with the Taliban were negotiated by the Trump administration, approved by Trump, and signed by Trump's representative, all while Trump was president" is it that you find impossible to comprehend?

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

5 hours ago, Hissone said:

Just curious do you agree with the president that 13 dead servicemen and over 150 dead civilians from a suicide bomber at Kabul airport is a success? Also the retaliation for the bombing led to a drone strike approved by the president that also killed a family of 10. 7 whom were children that had nothing to do with the bombing. Is that all a success and Trumps fault also? 

Hi Hissone,

From the D-Day landings to the liberation of Paris, 2/3 of the dead were French civilians.  In the Jan '45 fire-bombing of Tokyo, 100,000 Japanese civilians died.  

Would you consider those efforts a 'success?'

War is hell and people die.

I don't like it anymore than you do.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 1,149]

31 minutes ago, kallend said:

What part of "the details of the Doha accords with the Taliban were negotiated by the Trump administration, approved by Trump, and signed by Trump's representative, all while Trump was president" is it that you find impossible to comprehend?

He likely forgot how Trump personally sold out a US ally during his "peace talks".  Or how Trump pressured the Afghan government to release over 5,000 Taliban fighters before the talks even got started. i.e. before consulting with the Afghan government.

Here is the chronology of events according to FactCheck.org.

Edited May 27, 2024 by Phil1111

[JoeWeber 2,720]

1 hour ago, Hissone said:

I’m trying to understand. If Trump was responsible for all the gear being left behind,  the bombing at Kabul airport, all the civilians left behind,  the drone strike on the civilian family.  What was Biden’s responsibility during the withdrawal? Or is it anything bad is Trumps fault and if anything went good it’s Biden’s fault? That’s what it sounds like.  It must be a great job that you are the boss yet when something goes wrong it’s someone else’s fault. To be fair Trump does that as well. Neither show any type of actual leadership qualities. 

Have you read the documents for which  Kallend, Phil and I have posted links? If you truly are trying to understand the answer must be yes. If not the answer must be no. Education is the first step towards understanding. No one here has harshed you for what must be obvious are opinions with which we strongly disagree. And we are not just saying so we are taking the time to show with facts why. 

[billvon 2,990]

2 hours ago, Hissone said:

I’m trying to understand. If Trump was responsible for all the gear being left behind

yes, that was part of the agreement he signed

Quote

the bombing at Kabul airport

Nope.  That was ISIS.

Quote

all the civilians left behind

Yep.  The terms of the pullout - including the timing - were negotiated by Trump.

Quote

the drone strike on the civilian family.

If you mean the drone strike on the suicide bomber that also killed ten innocent people, no, that was Biden.  And I'm sure if THAT suicide bomber had killed another 13 US soldiers you'd blame Biden for that, too.

I get the feeling you would have welcomed additional US deaths, since you'd have more to blame Biden for.  And really, isn't that what's important to republicans these days?

Quote

It must be a great job that you are the boss yet when something goes wrong it’s someone else’s fault. 

Sometimes it's your fault, sometimes it's their fault.  Sometimes it's the fault of the LAST boss who agreed to some stupid terms in a contract, and now you are obligated to honor them.

Quote

Neither show any type of actual leadership qualities. 

If you really, honestly believe that, why not vote for the person who is not a rapist, who hasn't been indicted 91 times, who hasn't called US veterans "suckers" and "losers" and who hasn't threatened to "terminate" the Constitution?  I mean, Biden can remember who the current US president is, doesn't fall asleep at his desk, can read more than one page at a time, and even knows that during the Revolutionary War, we didn't have airports.  If they are both as bad as you claim, why not pick the more competent one, one who supports the US Constitution?

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

6 hours ago, Hissone said:

Just curious do you agree with the president that 13 dead servicemen and over 150 dead civilians from a suicide bomber at Kabul airport is a success? Also the retaliation for the bombing led to a drone strike approved by the president that also killed a family of 10. 7 whom were children that had nothing to do with the bombing. Is that all a success and Trumps fault also? 

 

3 hours ago, Hissone said:

Biden is commander in chief of the military. He was in charge of the withdrawal. I completely supported the withdrawal from Afghanistan.  The process that it was carried out was horrible and reckless.  Where is the punishment for the people responsible for the bombing? Beside the family that was killed in a drone strike that had nothing to do with the bombing. Was that Trumps fault also? I’m not a fan of Trump at all and wish a different candidate would have been chosen but this is where we are.     

 

The 'success' part is evacuating something like 120,000 people in a matter of weeks.

Not everything went perfectly or even well.

But it still stands as one of the most successful evacuations in modern history.

And, as far as 'caring about dead American servicemen', how about when Putin put bounties on dead US soldiers?

Trump was well aware of it, yet said...

Nothing.
Because he wouldn't/couldn't say anything bad about his master.

[Phil1111 1,149]

19 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

....And, as far as 'caring about dead American servicemen', how about when Putin put bounties on dead US soldiers?

Trump was well aware of it, yet said...

Nothing.
Because he wouldn't/couldn't say anything bad about his master.

Which gives rise to the question. Who is worse Trump or Benedict Arnold.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Just now, Phil1111 said:

Which gives rise to the question. Who is worse Trump or Benedict Arnold.

I don't think Benedict Arnold nominated anyone to the Supreme Court who would overturn 50 years of precedent (in part because the SC didn't exist)

I don't think Benedict Arnold openly talked about nullifying the Constitution (also didn't exist) or becoming a dictator.

OTOH, Arnold was deeply in debt and pretty much sold out the Americans for money.
Trump is desperate financially and has likely sold out to the Russians.

I would say Trump by a fair margin. But mostly because of the opportunities he had as President, opportunities that Arnold never had. All he had was a plan to let the Brits capture West Point. It would have been a huge setback for the Americans, but not likely one that would have led to defeat.

[Coreece 190]

On 5/23/2024 at 2:10 PM, gowlerk said:

They are protesting the extreme collective punishment and the blatant attempt at ethnic cleansing being meted out by Israel at the moment.

Protests against Israel erupted worldwide from day one before the blood even dried, with some chanting "gas the Jews."  Student groups swiftly justified Hamas' actions, while certain professors described them as exhilarating.  Some of the same individuals who openly called for the death of Jews were leading student protests.  They were inevitable regardless of any questionable tactics employed by the IDF.

[Coreece 190]

On 5/23/2024 at 3:39 PM, billvon said:

I'm not sure how you got from "anti-genocide" and "pro-palestinian" to "antisemitic."

It should come naturally to you. Just envision them as conservative protesters. Soon enough, numerous threads would emerge, each boasting lengthy posts, drawing various parallels to Nazis.  You wouldn't be acknowledging any of the 'very fine people' caught up in the surge of antisemitism as you are now.

 

If that doesn't work, I guess you could just take Biden's word for it:

"I condemn the antisemitic protests"

"we've seen harassment and calls for violence against Jews. This blatant antisemitism is reprehensible and dangerous - and it has absolutely no place on college campuses, or anywhere in our country"

 

From the BBC:
The White House has condemned "blatantly antisemitic" statements during ongoing student protests against the war in Gaza.
"While every American has the right to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly antisemitic, unconscionable, and dangerous," the statement read.

 

From NYT:
"People have the right to get an education, the right to get a degree, the right to walk across the campus safely without fear of being attacked.” Antisemitism, he added, “has no place” in America.
“Destroying property is not a peaceful protest. It’s against the law,” the president said. “Vandalism, trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduations — none of this is a peaceful protest. Threatening people, intimidating people, instilling fear in people is not peaceful protest. It’s against the law. Dissent is essential to democracy, but dissent must never lead to disorder or to denying the rights of others. . .

 

From NPR:
"We've seen a ferocious surge of antisemitism in America and around the world," Biden said.
He described Jewish students facing harassment, and posters and slogans "calling for the annihilation of Israel" as well as efforts by some to deny what happened on Oct. 7.
"But there is no place on any campus in America — any place in America — for antisemitism or hate speech, or threats of violence or any kind"

If you're like many in the country that don't take what Biden says too seriously, then you can take a look at the ADL's Campus Antisemitism Report Card, filterable by school, letter grade, state, etc:

https://www.adl.org/campus-antisemitism-report-card

BTW, both of our Alma Maters scored a failing grade:   

MIT - it was reported that university leadership exhibited open hostility toward Jews, student groups issued statements justifying Hamas' terrorism and Jewish students were targeted with death threats.

MSU -  Image of Hitler displayed on the jumbotron at a football game.

 

On 5/23/2024 at 3:39 PM, billvon said:

During the 60's, lots of conservatives looked at the anti-Vietnam-war protests and assumed the protesters were filthy, America-hating communists, since the communists were on the other side.  That was just as wrong.  They were protesting the war, not supporting communism.

While I can appreciate your ongoing attempt to draw parallels to the past, it's just more presentism that reeks of cultural bias and selective memory - It's irrelevant.

In 2024, with recording devices ubiquitous and readily available, practically every major event is captured and disseminated across various platforms in near real-time. The unfiltered truth is easily within reach for those who seek it. Even decades from now, attempts to twist these protests as a good thing will be futile given the abundance of evidence against them. So what makes you think you can do so today?

[gowlerk 2,190]

7 hours ago, Coreece said:

Protests against Israel erupted worldwide from day one before the blood even dried, with some chanting "gas the Jews."  Student groups swiftly justified Hamas' actions, while certain professors described them as exhilarating.  Some of the same individuals who openly called for the death of Jews were leading student protests.  They were inevitable regardless of any questionable tactics employed by the IDF.

You can try all you want to justify it, but Israel has gone too far. And it is going to damage itself in the end. And yes, an unfortunate increase in anti-semitism will flow from it. 

Edited May 28, 2024 by gowlerk

[Phil1111 1,149]

31 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

You can try all you want to justify it, but Israel has gone too far. And it is going to damage itself in the end. And yes, an unfortunate increase in anti-semitism will flow from it. 

Spain, Norway and Ireland have already shown the direction of world opinion on Netanyahu's war strategy. On the license that Israel has given to illegal West Bank right wing settlers. Most of the support that Israel received after the Hamas attacks has faded to nothing.

There is a significant opposition to the methods of the IDF in its pursuit of Hamas within Israel. Having said that most Israeli citizens including myself believe Hamas must be destroyed.

Since this is a trump v Hitler thread. I have to add that like Trump, Netanyahu has also been indicted for corruption, fraud and breach of trust.

[gowlerk 2,190]

20 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

There is a significant opposition to the methods of the IDF in its pursuit of Hamas within Israel. Having said that most Israeli citizens including myself believe Hamas must be destroyed.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Since this is a trump v Hitler thread. I have to add that like Trump, Netanyahu has also been indicted for corruption, fraud and breach of trust.

I suppose that it is mostly because no one here really wants to jump into this complex set of issues with no good answers, but I am still surprised that we have no thread on it. On the other hand I don't want to start it either. Hamas being destroyed is an illusion. The best you could really hope for is a name change. 

[jakee 1,489]

8 hours ago, Coreece said:

They were inevitable regardless of any questionable tactics employed by the IDF.

Does the phrase ‘This isn’t our first rodeo’ ring any bells? The tactics deployed by Israel were inevitable. Why not pre-emptively protest something you know is going to happen?

[jakee 1,489]

23 hours ago, Hissone said:

Also the retaliation for the bombing led to a drone strike approved by the president that also killed a family of 10. 7 whom were children that had nothing to do with the bombing. 

Just out of curiosity - do you think it is remotely possible that no civilians were killed by drone strikes while Trump was CinC?