Trump vs Hitler

[ryoder 1,590]

On 5/28/2024 at 4:22 PM, JoeWeber said:

Trump is certainly awful, thats incontestable. But could you please explain why Biden is truly awful and on the same scale, as you imply, as Trump?

I can only conclude Winsor is saying Biden is awfully old.

[billvon 2,991]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Cool. What's Biden guilty of that means a moderate could never vote for him?

I think you missed the point of his post.  (Unless, of course, you figure if you ask the same question over and over you'll get an answer you like.)

[lippy 918]

3 hours ago, nigel99 said:

I think there are a few good reasons not to vote for him. I think his age is a major concern, as an example.

I don’t think people should be criticised for not voting based on their conviction that neither candidate is suitable. There isn’t an option to vote no. 

I get the argument that not voting potentially helps Trump, but similarly voting for Biden gives him more of a mandate, which a moderate might not want to do.

As I see it, the only options this cycle are Trump or Biden.  Anybody else is a spoiler...that's just the realities of the 2-party system and it's not going to change anytime soon.  I'm not Biden's biggest fan, but he's done a lot of good, he seems like a decent human, and most of all he's not Trump.  The disaster of a 2nd (or as he himself has floated, potentially a 3rd) Trump term is hard to overstate.  

I like BIGUN...I always find his posts here insightful and I remember having a great fucking time sharing a beer with him at the Dead Man Boogie at Skydive Temple back in 2009, and I think we did a few jumps at SDD back in the day...that is to say, I respect the guy and I'm not gonna shit on his plan to vote for neither.  That said, IMO a vote for neither is a vote for Trump, since the outcome is pre-decided as one of them winning by a razor-thin margin.  

Or we can have 4(+) more years of tax cuts for billionaires, rolling back infrastructure progress and promises of a new infrastructure plan/ACA replacement 'In 2 weeks'...

[gowlerk 2,192]

23 minutes ago, lippy said:

Or we can have 4(+) more years of tax cuts for billionaires, rolling back infrastructure progress and promises of a new infrastructure plan/ACA replacement 'In 2 weeks'...

And random chaos. You forgot random chaos.

[Phil1111 1,149]

2 hours ago, ryoder said:

I can only conclude Winsor is saying Biden is awfully old.

Most likely is that every politician ever born is a criminal.

By the way, what kind of prison tat do you think trump will get?

[JoeWeber 2,720]

22 hours ago, lippy said:

As I see it, the only options this cycle are Trump or Biden.  Anybody else is a spoiler...that's just the realities of the 2-party system and it's not going to change anytime soon.  I'm not Biden's biggest fan, but he's done a lot of good, he seems like a decent human, and most of all he's not Trump.  The disaster of a 2nd (or as he himself has floated, potentially a 3rd) Trump term is hard to overstate.  

I like BIGUN...I always find his posts here insightful and I remember having a great fucking time sharing a beer with him at the Dead Man Boogie at Skydive Temple back in 2009, and I think we did a few jumps at SDD back in the day...that is to say, I respect the guy and I'm not gonna shit on his plan to vote for neither.  That said, IMO a vote for neither is a vote for Trump, since the outcome is pre-decided as one of them winning by a razor-thin margin.  

Or we can have 4(+) more years of tax cuts for billionaires, rolling back infrastructure progress and promises of a new infrastructure plan/ACA replacement 'In 2 weeks'...

I’ve only met BIGUN here, and what I get is a sincere, genuine, honest and decent person. The kind of guy you would want to have a few beers with. That doesn’t mean I automatically buy what he’s selling. In particular his views on abortion are not moderate. As I agree with you that no vote is a vote for Trump, and at a time it could hardly matter more, I consider that as far from moderate as it gets. So being a moderate is what he’s currently selling and I’m not buying it. Those positions are to the right of moderate in my opinion.

[BartsDaddy 7]

On 5/30/2024 at 2:27 PM, gowlerk said:

Maybe we could set up a Go Fund Me to try and buy Keith's vote.

So your OK with buying votes? I thought there was some laws against that.

[Coreece 190]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:53 PM, billvon said:

On 5/28/2024 at 1:24 AM, Coreece said:

"I condemn the antisemitic protests"

So do I.  They exist.

So why didn't you just say that the first time instead of acting like you didn't know what I was talking about? 

On 5/28/2024 at 1:53 PM, billvon said:

They are not the same as pro-Palestinian protests, no matter how tightly you crank down your blinders.

Never said they were.  But nice job slipping that in there.

As if you would ever make that distinction when it's one of the isolated incidents of conservative antisemitism.  But when the largest widespread surge of antisemitism is coming from the left, you effectively say "I don't know how you get "antisemitic" from all this.

[normiss 800]

On 5/31/2024 at 10:13 PM, Coreece said:

So why didn't you just say that the first time instead of acting like you didn't know what I was talking about? 

Never said they were.  But nice job slipping that in there.

As if you would ever make that distinction when it's one of the isolated incidents of conservative antisemitism.  But when the largest widespread surge of antisemitism is coming from the left, you effectively say "I don't know how you get "antisemitic" from all this.

Seems like you prefer to refer to all anti-Israeli protests as anti-Semite.

They aren't.

"As if you would ever make that distinction."

[lippy 918]

38 minutes ago, normiss said:

Seems like you prefer to refer to all anti-Israeli protests as anti-Semite.

They aren't.

"As if you would ever make that distinction."

I saw a whole lot of LinkedIn connections referring to the pro-Palestine protests on university campuses a while back as 'pro-Hamas'....I guess some people are allergic to nuance.  

[gowlerk 2,192]

2 hours ago, lippy said:

I saw a whole lot of LinkedIn connections referring to the pro-Palestine protests on university campuses a while back as 'pro-Hamas'....I guess some people are allergic to nuance.  

You are either with us or against us. That was the American position after 9-11 and it is the current Israeli position.

[Coreece 190]

5 hours ago, normiss said:

"As if you would ever make that distinction."

You don't remember the post you replied to where I provided a video in defense of the college students that were puzzled by their existence, baffled as to why they were there, and wishing they were more educated?

[Coreece 190]

 

5 hours ago, lippy said:

I saw a whole lot of LinkedIn connections referring to the pro-Palestine protests on university campuses a while back as 'pro-Hamas'....I guess some people are allergic to nuance.  

Well when you have teachers and faculty telling students that the attacks "are a gift from from allah," that they were "exhilarating" and "spectacular," and that it was "a beautiful day. . . "

. . .And then numerous student groups from multiple universities issue statements like “we, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence” and “the apartheid regime is the only one to blame. . .”

. . .And then those students, some of which were calling for the death of Jews, organize multiple protests. . .

Ya, it might cross your mind.

 

You can find more here:

https://www.adl.org/campus-antisemitism-report-card

[lippy 918]

14 minutes ago, Coreece said:

 

Well when you have teachers and faculty telling students that the attacks "are a gift from from allah," that they were "exhilarating" and "spectacular," and that it was "a beautiful day. . . "

. . .And then numerous student groups from multiple universities issue statements like “we, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence” and “the apartheid regime is the only one to blame. . .”

. . .And then those students, some of which were calling for the death of Jews, organize multiple protests. . .

Ya, it might cross your mind.

 

You can find more here:

https://www.adl.org/campus-antisemitism-report-card

I think the vast majority of the protesters were trying to call attention to 30,000+ deaths in Gaza, the majority of them civilians, and 10's of thousands more living in absolutely horrific conditions.  That strikes me as a cause worth raising a stink about.

A few nutters on faculty got a pretty disproportionate amount of coverage...their positions are unfortunate but hey: if a nutter can be Speaker of the House, why can't one be an adjunct professor?

Antisemitism is disgusting and should be squashed whenever/wherever it rears its head...it's unfortunate that antisemites were using these protests to elevate their vile position; they're just as bad as Hamas in my opinion.  A couple things that might cross your mind:

- It's possible to oppose Hamas and oppose the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians.

- It's possible to oppose the actions of the far-right Israeli government without being an anti-semite.

- Despite what Fox tells you, US universities aren't the bastions of antisemitism they're being made out to be.  Most of the tiki torches are being lit off-campus.  

 

[billvon 2,991]

On 5/31/2024 at 7:13 PM, Coreece said:

Never said they were.  But nice job slipping that in there.

Your own words: "Personally it's hard to take seriously the nazi claims by the left, especially with all the antisemitic protests/encampments at universities across the country."

If you are now admitting that most of these are NOT antisemitic, then great - you are making progress, and starting to see beyond the official right wing misinformation campaign.

[jakee 1,489]

6 hours ago, Coreece said:

You don't remember the post you replied to where I provided a video in defense of the college students that were puzzled by their existence, baffled as to why they were there, and wishing they were more educated?

Err, right. Yeah that does sound virulently racist. Straight outta the white supremacist playbook for sure. How much more evidence of rampant hatred of Jews does anyone need than a video of someone being puzzled?

[jakee 1,489]

7 hours ago, Coreece said:

Well when you have teachers and faculty telling students that the attacks "are a gift from from allah," that they were "exhilarating" and "spectacular," and that it was "a beautiful day. . . "

So this is clearly a very bad thing. But how much of a thing? How many of these comments were made? Is it really a large widespread surge, or is it like those isolated incidents from the right that you were quite dismissive of?

7 hours ago, Coreece said:

. . .And then numerous student groups from multiple universities issue statements like “we, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence” and “the apartheid regime is the only one to blame. . .”

So this is clearly a different thing. You get that, right? I mean, you've quoted the bit where it is explicitly a criticism of Israeli government policy. That can't be out of bounds just because the Israeli government is made up of Jews.

I heard an interview here a couple of years ago with a pro-Israeli representative, and in response to some of his allegations the host did try to get a recognition from him that you can disagree with the government of the state of Israel without being anti-Semitic. His response was that if you always take a side against Israel then you must be anti-Semitic. Might be a fair point - though it did make me wonder how often he'd ever agreed with the position of the Palestinian National Authority on any disagreement between the two.

[olofscience 480]

18 hours ago, billvon said:

If you are now admitting that most of these are NOT antisemitic, then great - you are making progress, and starting to see beyond the official right wing misinformation campaign.

Oh, but he didn't say exactly that - maybe he needs to clarify the "framing of his rhetorical question" later (not now - that would defeat the purpose of his trolling) but he'll throw a few subtle digs for you to argue against, then he'll deny that he said exactly that, then start the loop again.

 

What is it with conservatives that they just talk in short, predictable loops? It's stupider than talking with ChatGPT...

[Coreece 190]

On 6/2/2024 at 7:40 PM, billvon said:

Your own words: "Personally it's hard to take seriously the nazi claims by the left, especially with all the antisemitic protests/encampments at universities across the country."

If you are now admitting that most of these are NOT antisemitic, then great - you are making progress, and starting to see beyond the official right wing misinformation campaign.

Well I'm specifically talking about all the antisemitic protests, so I see no reason to say that antisemitic protests are not antisemitic.

But ya, If you're now finally acknowledging the "very fine people," then great - you are making progress, and starting to see beyond a moral stance that lacks principled consistency, confined by partisan boundaries.

[Coreece 190]

22 hours ago, jakee said:

On 6/2/2024 at 7:00 PM, Coreece said:

. .And then numerous student groups from multiple universities issue statements like “we, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence” and “the apartheid regime is the only one to blame. . .”

So this is clearly a different thing. You get that, right?

Ya, pro hamas.

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

Ya, pro hamas.

But nah, brah.

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

Well I'm specifically talking about all the antisemitic protests, so I see no reason to say that antisemitic protests are not antisemitic.

So which ones are they? What proportion of all the protests are you saying are antisemitic?

[olofscience 480]

4 hours ago, Coreece said:

Well I'm specifically talking about all the antisemitic protests

You said "specifically" but do you realise that nothing in this statement was specific?

You didn't specify anything, instead just saying "all the antisemitic protests" which kinda looks like you're painting all the protests with a broad brush.

 

See, this is why I don't think you're arguing honestly at all...

[kallend 2,027]

13 minutes ago, olofscience said:

You said "specifically" but do you realise that nothing in this statement was specific?

You didn't specify anything, instead just saying "all the antisemitic protests" which kinda looks like you're painting all the protests with a broad brush.

 

See, this is why I don't think you're arguing honestly at all...

You expected something else?

[Phil1111 1,149]

2 hours ago, olofscience said:

You said "specifically" but do you realise that nothing in this statement was specific?

You didn't specify anything, instead just saying "all the antisemitic protests" which kinda looks like you're painting all the protests with a broad brush.

 

See, this is why I don't think you're arguing honestly at all...

VVVVVVVVV

1 hour ago, kallend said:

You expected something else?

^^^^^^^^^^  Take framing nail gun and drive spikes in the four corners of this.