Enigma

[kallend 2,026]

No- not codebreaking,

May 2 is the official US National Day of Prayer (established 1952).

Soon followed by the National Prayer Breakfast (1953); “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance (1954); a Congressional Prayer Room in the U.S. Capitol (1955); “In God We Trust” as the U.S. motto (1956), on our money (1957) and inscribed on the rostrum of the speaker of the House (1962).  All of the above clearly associated with one particular religion, Christianity, with a smattering of "Judeo" thrown in.

How is all this reconciled with Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, and the prominent absence of any reference to a deity or deities in the Constitution?

[wmw999 2,444]

Oh come on — everyone knows that sometimes you have to break the rules to get the results you want! We wanted to make sure we knew who the godless communists were, and just like sunlight to a vampire or water to a witch, they’d melt when faced with just the right antidote

Wendy P. 

[kallend 2,026]

5 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Oh come on — everyone knows that. . . 

Once upon a time everyone knew that the Earth is flat and that most ailments are cured by bloodletting,

[gowlerk 2,190]

43 minutes ago, kallend said:

How is all this reconciled with Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, and the prominent absence of any reference to a deity or deities in the Constitution?

The USA is still largely controlled by those who are culturally "Christian". Meaning euro-centric and white. It has little to do with deities or theology. It is all about those who belong to the group with the most power clinging onto it as tightly as they can. It is a similar thing to how Hinduists have taken over in supposedly secular India. All US leaders must embrace the phrase "God bless America", it is a prerequisite even if only done performa.   

[JoeWeber 2,720]

Just now, kallend said:

Once upon a time everyone knew that the Earth is flat and that most ailments are cured by bloodletting,

And what goes around comes around, apparently.

[Phil1111 1,149]

The Center for Renewing America is led by a former trump official. It has an agenda to spread White nationalism and the control of Christianity in government. During the next trump presidency and after trump is gone.

They are organized, zealous and driven by the idea that liberals are out to destroy the Christian faith. They like trump because they can make deals with him. Bend him to their cause. part of their agenda is "overturning same-sex marriage, ending abortion and reducing access to contraceptives."

Roe v Wade was just the start, a preamble to the Christian agenda.

Edited May 1, 2024 by Phil1111

[wmw999 2,444]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

preamble to the Christian agenda

I’m sorry, they don’t define the Christian agenda any more than the Mormons, the Catholics, or the Jehovah’s Witnesses do (many evangelicals don’t consider any of those to be Christians either).

Its their agenda, and I really hope that enough people see it as the White Nationalist bullshit it is

Wendy P. 

[billvon 2,990]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

How is all this reconciled with Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, and the prominent absence of any reference to a deity or deities in the Constitution?

It is explained away by claiming that (for example) the Prayer Room is for all denomination; it does not respect any one establishment of religion over another.  Of course, that doesn't work with "under God" since it excludes all the pantheistic religions.

On the plus side, every time it's been challenged, the law has been interpreted as "you have to include all religions if they want in" when it comes to government support of religion.  That will likely change if Trump conservatism takes hold.

[gowlerk 2,190]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

On the plus side, every time it's been challenged, the law has been interpreted as "you have to include all religions if they want in" when it comes to government support of religion.  That will likely change if Trump conservatism takes hold.

Given the record and makeup of the current SCOTUS I would think that a change toward favouring more blatant governmental support for mainline religions is inevitable. It is already occurring on several fronts, especially support for parochial schools.   

[JoeWeber 2,720]

4 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Given the record and makeup of the current SCOTUS I would think that a change toward favouring more blatant governmental support for mainline religions is inevitable. It is already occurring on several fronts, especially support for parochial schools.   

Get ready for a lot more Jesus.

[RonD1120 62]

Seems there is a lot of unnecessary fear expressed here.

[gowlerk 2,190]

1 hour ago, RonD1120 said:

Seems there is a lot of unnecessary fear expressed here.

Yes, religious persecution can never happen again.

[Phil1111 1,149]

On 5/1/2024 at 10:46 AM, gowlerk said:

Given the record and makeup of the current SCOTUS I would think that a change toward favouring more blatant governmental support for mainline religions is inevitable. It is already occurring on several fronts, especially support for parochial schools.   

 Canada ain't so special.

"Oh Canada Our home and native land...

God keep our land glorious and free."

Then there is the whole religion think of have a UK "King" and the constitutional monarchy in Canada's business. At least the US had a party and did away with that b.s.

[gowlerk 2,190]

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

 Canada ain't so special.

"Oh Canada Our home and native land...

God keep our land glorious and free."

Then there is the whole religion think of have a UK "King" and the constitutional monarchy in Canada's business. At least the US had a party and did away with that b.s.

All true FWIW. But religion seems to be less dominant here nonetheless. And while I agree the monarchy is a concept we would be better off without it is just a figurehead and the king is essentially powerless.

[Phil1111 1,149]

9 hours ago, gowlerk said:

..But religion seems to be less dominant here nonetheless...

Completely agree. I think the large numbers of immigrants has diluted the effects of Jebus.

[kallend 2,026]

15 hours ago, gowlerk said:

All true FWIW. But religion seems to be less dominant here nonetheless. And while I agree the monarchy is a concept we would be better off without it is just a figurehead and the king is essentially powerless.

All things considered, I would prefer either the previous monarch or the current one over Trump as head of state.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Canada has a figurehead monarch with no actual power.  The MAGA population of the USA hungers for an actual monarch with absolute power.  

[tkhayes 348]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:32 AM, billvon said:

It is explained away by claiming that (for example) the Prayer Room is for all denomination; it does not respect any one establishment of religion over another.  Of course, that doesn't work with "under God" since it excludes all the pantheistic religions.

On the plus side, every time it's been challenged, the law has been interpreted as "you have to include all religions if they want in" when it comes to government support of religion.  That will likely change if Trump conservatism takes hold.

I for one, am tired of the 'explaining away'..... the 'cultural christians' stand by and watch and do nothing when the extreme christians make gains as they stomp towards a christian nationalistic country where we have religious freedom, but only if you are christian.

It is so much like people standing by and watching while trump stomps all over the constitution and breaks the laws, and they 'splain that away' too with bullshit like 'it's not so bad' or 'they all do it'.

Christians will burn the country and the world to the ground if we let them.  They support Israel because the second coming and the end-of-times cannot happen with Israel existing.  (still have to build the temple or whatever).

They storm the capital and break whatever laws because after all - they are doing god's work, so it does not matter if it is illegal and the constitution be damned, there's a higher power in charge telling me what to do.  Luckily so far, thousands of them are charged with crimes, but even that is sitting in front of SCOTUS waiting to be undone.

fuck those people and fuck christian nationalism.  And Trump, if elected, will let it all happen because they support him and he is a narcissistic sociopath, he can sit on a throne as the divinely chosen one, and whatever feeds his ego and wallet is good by him.

Israel does not speak out about it, because after all, they get so much support from the USA, even though they are all damned to hell when the Armageddon happens, unless they convert.... but I am pretty sure they are laughing behind our backs about that.

This country will truly be fucked if Trump gets elected, and even if he does not, the SCOTUS seems determined to make watery decisions that dilute everything out there... again, standing by and watching it happen, instead of stopping it by actually supporting the constitution and the rule of law.