o2cui2i 0 #501 September 15, 2024 1 hour ago, nigel99 said: For a long time I have questioned the level of American patriotism and how healthy it was. From the outside it always came across as conceited and misguided. Add in the 2nd amendment views and commitment to free speech that get portrayed to the world as ‘only Americans are free’ and it really invoked strong negative impressions, but I couldn’t put my finger on why. I think we are now seeing the reasons why the lack of guardrails lead to problems. Allowing hate speech as free speech, can lead to extremism that you can’t curtail. I can’t help but feel that Trump is the product of a problem and not the cause. The right wing vitriol, lies and hate are ‘legal’ and it’s treated no differently to the truth. I know there isn’t a simple answer to getting to balance right between suppressing views and free speech. I believe Europe and other Western countries might have the balance a bit better than the US sadly. 'Freedom of expression, subject to reasonable limits', is the wording in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. IMO, if any State can't, or doesn't want, to assert reasonable limits....they've accepted the inevitable consequences of fostering 'absolutism'....... in the name of protecting 'freedom'. In actuality, these States are unleashing the very forces posing the biggest threat to that cherished ideal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #502 September 15, 2024 And another loony with a gun: https://apnews.com/live/trump-shooting-west-palm-beach-updates If you promote violence (even by dog whistle) I guess you shouldn't be surprised if it comes to you too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 568 #503 September 15, 2024 (edited) 23 minutes ago, kallend said: And another loony with a gun: https://apnews.com/live/trump-shooting-west-palm-beach-updates If you promote violence (even by dog whistle) I guess you shouldn't be surprised if it comes to you too. I wonder if it is related to him hating Taylor Swift? People predicted Trump would pull stunts to get back in the news cycle, it’s really hard not to see this as a Trump inspired bit of drama - especially with an AK47. Unless it’s Melania out to get Loomer … Edited September 15, 2024 by nigel99 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #504 September 15, 2024 25 minutes ago, nigel99 said: I wonder if it is related to him hating Taylor Swift? People predicted Trump would pull stunts to get back in the news cycle, it’s really hard not to see this as a Trump inspired bit of drama - especially with an AK47. Unless it’s Melania out to get Loomer … Melania already has the perfect jacket for this. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #505 September 15, 2024 1 hour ago, nigel99 said: I wonder if it is related to him hating Taylor Swift? People predicted Trump would pull stunts to get back in the news cycle, it’s really hard not to see this as a Trump inspired bit of drama - especially with an AK47. Unless it’s Melania out to get Loomer … If Loomer will do the dirty jobs that Melania won't, why would she care? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #506 September 16, 2024 1 hour ago, ryoder said: If Loomer will do the dirty jobs that Melania won't, why would she care? It's been abundantly clear for quite a while that the porn model wants NOTHING to do with him. I found this in about 10 seconds. Further searching will undoubtedly find a lot more. https://www.tiktok.com/@betches/video/6903608019867684101 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #507 September 16, 2024 He's going to come up against someone with military training who will not make the mistakes these amateur assassins are making, and they will get him, secret service or not. He's put the target on his own back, with his hateful rhetoric and dog whistles. All it will take is someone with determination, and nothing to lose (like a terminal illness). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #508 September 16, 2024 14 minutes ago, obelixtim said: He's going to come up against someone with military training who will not make the mistakes these amateur assassins are making, and they will get him, secret service or not. He's put the target on his own back, with his hateful rhetoric and dog whistles. All it will take is someone with determination, and nothing to lose (like a terminal illness). Whether that person is against him or for him (failed attempts get more attention on him). Wendy P. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,822 #509 September 16, 2024 16 minutes ago, obelixtim said: He's going to come up against someone with military training who will not make the mistakes these amateur assassins are making, and they will get him, secret service or not. He's put the target on his own back, with his hateful rhetoric and dog whistles. All it will take is someone with determination, and nothing to lose (like a terminal illness). Let us hope not. As awful and odious as he is he is also a former American President under Secret Service protection. We must hope that he can be protected from harm. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,149 #510 September 16, 2024 Killing the Iran nuclear deal was one of Trump's biggest failures "IAEA, the United Nations watchdog, said Iran’s nuclear-fuel levels rose between June and August, enough to fuel a handful of warheads should Iran make a political decision to pursue weapons." Russia sharing nuclear secrets with Iran fuels U.S.-U.K. worries in exchange for the recent shipments of ballistic missiles from Iran to Russia to be used in Ukraine. The above is just another example of Trump's stupidity that has effected the whole world. So: 37 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: Let us hope not. As awful and odious as he is he is also a former American President under Secret Service protection. We must hope that he can be protected from harm. as a clear and present danger to the entire planet. Are you sure about that? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,822 #511 September 16, 2024 1 hour ago, Phil1111 said: Killing the Iran nuclear deal was one of Trump's biggest failures "IAEA, the United Nations watchdog, said Iran’s nuclear-fuel levels rose between June and August, enough to fuel a handful of warheads should Iran make a political decision to pursue weapons." Russia sharing nuclear secrets with Iran fuels U.S.-U.K. worries in exchange for the recent shipments of ballistic missiles from Iran to Russia to be used in Ukraine. The above is just another example of Trump's stupidity that has effected the whole world. So: as a clear and present danger to the entire planet. Are you sure about that? Yes. He has already defiled too many of our institutions. Lets hope he doesn't also permanently defile our secret service. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #512 September 16, 2024 5 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Let us hope not. As awful and odious as he is he is also a former American President under Secret Service protection. We must hope that he can be protected from harm. How many people died on his watch due to his stupidity and ignorance when the pandemic was in full flow? He richly deserves any harm that comes his way. More so than any other person on the planet. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 568 #513 September 16, 2024 You’d think Trump would know by now that a woman scorned is a dangerous adversary. MTG has really changed her tune now that Trump has cosied up to Loomer. She’s criticising Trump and Maga Mike for the fake fight over the Save act. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #514 September 16, 2024 (edited) Native born Ohioan kills and eats cat: On Aug. 26, Canton police charged a 27-year-old woman with animal cruelty and disorderly conduct after she “did torture, kill, and eat a cat in a residential area in front (of) multiple people,” according to a police report. But Allexis Ferrell is not Haitian. She was born in Ohio and graduated from Canton’s McKinley High School in 2015, according to public records and newspaper reports. Court records show she has been in and out of trouble with the law since at least 2017. Messages seeking comment were not returned by several attorneys who have represented her. Edited September 16, 2024 by kallend Format Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,249 #515 September 16, 2024 9 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Let us hope not. As awful and odious as he is he is also a former American President under Secret Service protection. We must hope that he can be protected from harm. I agree. No good can come from him being assassinated at this point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #516 September 16, 2024 4 hours ago, obelixtim said: How many people died on his watch due to his stupidity and ignorance when the pandemic was in full flow? He richly deserves any harm that comes his way. More so than any other person on the planet. I can think of several who are more highly qualified for that particular honor. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #517 September 16, 2024 4 minutes ago, gowlerk said: I agree. No good can come from him being assassinated at this point. I don't know about that. Typically, when the cult leader dies, the cult dies along with it. The same thing with a dictatorship. Unless there's a clear successor*, who can mesmerize the fools as well as the original leader, it usually ends up in infighting and chaos. Watching Vance try to take over the MAGA movement would be hilarious. As is typical with dictators (both actual and 'wannabe') Trumpty Dumpty has made sure that anyone actually capable of leading doesn't stay around. *Two notable exceptions are DPRK (North Korea) and the old Soviet Union. Kim Il Sung made sure his son would take over, and subsequent sons have done the same. It's a 'family dynasty' very similar to medieval Europe. In the old Soviet Union, there were often a few different individuals who were capable of leading. And sometimes a few who thought they were, but the Politburo didn't agree. Because the secondary leaders wanted to stay in power, they made sure there was a reasonably smooth transfer of power when the leader died. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 851 #518 September 16, 2024 10 hours ago, wmw999 said: Whether that person is against him or for him (failed attempts get more attention on him). Wendy P. Especially when, within 10 minutes of the incident, he's back golfing AND sending out mass media communications asking for donations. Like nothing happened. Again. Strangest assassination attempt events ever. Almost like nothing happened. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,149 #519 September 16, 2024 (edited) 25 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: I don't know about that. Typically, when the cult leader dies, the cult dies along with it. The same thing with a dictatorship. Unless there's a clear successor*, who can mesmerize the fools as well as the original leader, it usually ends up in infighting and chaos. Watching Vance try to take over the MAGA movement would be hilarious. As is typical with dictators (both actual and 'wannabe') Trumpty Dumpty has made sure that anyone actually capable of leading doesn't stay around. *Two notable exceptions are DPRK (North Korea) and the old Soviet Union. Kim Il Sung made sure his son would take over, and subsequent sons have done the same. It's a 'family dynasty' very similar to medieval Europe. In the old Soviet Union, there were often a few different individuals who were capable of leading. And sometimes a few who thought they were, but the Politburo didn't agree. Because the secondary leaders wanted to stay in power, they made sure there was a reasonably smooth transfer of power when the leader died. All very good points but I'd hope that the assassination "attempts" would stop. He gets sympathy, fund raising and attention off each attempt. 13 minutes ago, normiss said: Especially when, within 10 minutes of the incident, he's back golfing AND sending out mass media communications asking for donations. Like nothing happened. Again. Strangest assassination attempt events ever. Almost like nothing happened. When you call upon your base for violence. When you promise to pardon your coup partners. When you act as a mafia boss, you have to keep cool to sustain the Teflon facade. Then there is the trump underlings calling for retribution: "Hours after what the F.B.I. called a second attempted assassination of former President Donald J. Trump, Elon Musk wrote on his social media site — and then deleted — a post suggesting it was odd that nobody had tried to kill President Biden or Vice President Kamala Harris. Mr. Musk said the post on X had been intended as a joke." Edited September 16, 2024 by Phil1111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,822 #520 September 16, 2024 10 hours ago, Phil1111 said: Killing the Iran nuclear deal was one of Trump's biggest failures "IAEA, the United Nations watchdog, said Iran’s nuclear-fuel levels rose between June and August, enough to fuel a handful of warheads should Iran make a political decision to pursue weapons." Russia sharing nuclear secrets with Iran fuels U.S.-U.K. worries in exchange for the recent shipments of ballistic missiles from Iran to Russia to be used in Ukraine. The above is just another example of Trump's stupidity that has effected the whole world. So: as a clear and present danger to the entire planet. Are you sure about that? Yes, and it's a real no brainer. We do not need, and should never want, our political leaders past or present being assassinated. We absolutely should want them held accountable for crimes committed but never slain extrajudicially. Things are bad enough as they are. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #521 September 16, 2024 1 minute ago, JoeWeber said: Yes, and it's a real no brainer. We do not need, and should never want, our political leaders past or present being assassinated. We absolutely should want them held accountable for crimes committed but never slain extrajudicially. Things are bad enough as they are. SCOTUS has already ensured there will be no accountabillity. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,822 #522 September 16, 2024 1 minute ago, ryoder said: SCOTUS has already ensured there will be no accountabillity. Anarchy is not yet the answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,149 #523 September 16, 2024 22 minutes ago, ryoder said: SCOTUS has already ensured there will be no accountabillity. Accountability is for the peasants. For those with gold bathroom fixtures and private jets there is the golden rule. Those with the gold, rule. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,249 #524 September 16, 2024 1 hour ago, Phil1111 said: Accountability is for the peasants. For those with gold bathroom fixtures and private jets there is the golden rule. Those with the gold, rule. And yet he doesn't rule. And even when he was POTUS he was frequently thwarted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #525 September 16, 2024 4 minutes ago, gowlerk said: And yet he doesn't rule. And even when he was POTUS he was frequently thwarted. When he was POTUS, he did not yet have immunity to commit crimes as "official acts". 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites