ACLU

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi folks,

While I do not always agree with them, this is why I donate to them every year:  ACLU to file lawsuit against Louisiana law requiring Ten Commandments in classrooms

ACLU to file lawsuit against Louisiana law requiring 10 Commandments in schools (thehill.com)

Jerry Baumchen

[BIGUN 1,314]

36 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

While I do not always agree with them,

Neither did Rush Limbaugh till he did. 

 

38 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

ACLU to file lawsuit against Louisiana law requiring Ten Commandments in classrooms

That's gonna be an easy win, Jerry. There's always parochial school. 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

Just now, BIGUN said:

Neither did Rush Limbaugh till he did. 

 

That's gonna be an easy win, Jerry. There's always parochial school. 

The fact that they did it shows how we've already lost.

[BIGUN 1,314]

14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

The fact that they did it shows how we've already lost.

Nah. It was somebody's attempt in an election cycle to say here's what I did for you. Now, see what the Government did - RE-ELECT ME SO I CAN FIGHT FOR YOU!!! Pathetic

[JoeWeber 2,720]

Just now, BIGUN said:

Nah. It was somebody's attempt in an election cycle to say here's what I did for you. Now, see what the Government did - RE-ELECT ME SO I CAN FIGHT FOR YOU!!! Pathetic

Even buying your premise requires believing there is a constituency in favor of more Jesus for everyone, like it or not,: and there is, hence the ability to even get to a law that is an obvious affront to the separation of Church and State. They have the Supreme Court and enough weight now in Congress and will jam it down our throats whenever they see a chance. So yes, we've already lost.

[gowlerk 2,192]

18 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

They have the Supreme Court and enough weight now in Congress and will jam it down our throats whenever they see a chance. So yes, we've already lost.

SCOTUS saw fit to overturn a decided right to privacy and freedom from state interference in a decision that is reverberating through the electoral system. Will the religious zealots on the court feel emboldened enough to overturn the First Amendment establishment of religion clause? Probably not, but if this case comes before them they will certainly find a way to chip away at it again.  

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Nah. It was somebody's attempt in an election cycle to say here's what I did for you. Now, see what the Government did - RE-ELECT ME SO I CAN FIGHT FOR YOU!!! Pathetic

The number of states planning similar laws just demonstrate the enormous impact that the radical right wing Supreme Court is having. It's happening in the US, right? It's never not an election cycle in the US. But this is happening now, and it's happening all over the place. Clearly it's because something has changed and it;s pretty obvious what that is.

 

As an aside, it;s always funny when a right wing so-called christian (Landry, not you) claims that the law or the government of the US is based on the 10 Commandments. There's no surer way to demonstrate they've never even read them!

[BIGUN 1,314]

12 minutes ago, jakee said:

(Landry, not you) claims that the law or the government of the US is based on the 10 Commandments. There's no surer way to demonstrate they've never even read them!

Or read any of Madison on the subject.  

[ryoder 1,590]

And the Louisiana politicians don't even see the irony, but Borowitz does:

Louisiana Orders Classrooms To Display All Ten Commandments That Trump Has Broken

[jakee 1,489]

32 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Or read any of Madison on the subject.  

I'll have to take your word on that, but it's frankly an esoteric point compared to the fundamental issue. You don't need any level of legal, political or historical scholarship to realise western law isn't based on the Ten Commandments. You just need to read the Ten Commandments and go "hey that's weird, this stuff ain't in the law".

I suppose it takes a fractionally deeper understanding to recognise that government can't be based on them either since the First Amendment is an explicit rejection of the First Commandment, but still I'd hardly call it research.

[billvon 2,991]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

SCOTUS saw fit to overturn a decided right to privacy and freedom from state interference in a decision that is reverberating through the electoral system. Will the religious zealots on the court feel emboldened enough to overturn the First Amendment establishment of religion clause? Probably not, but if this case comes before them they will certainly find a way to chip away at it again.  

This reminds of a West Wing episode, when an angry, influential evangelist (John Van Dyke) came by the White House:

=====================================

VAN DYKE
I'd like to discuss why we hear so much talk about the First Amendment
coming out of this building, but no talk at all about the First Commandment.

The First Commandment says "Honor thy Father".

 . . .

JED BARTLET (shaking his head)
"I am the Lord your God. Thou shalt worship no other God before me."
Boy, those were the days, huh?

JOHN VAN DYKE
Mr. President, I'm John Van Dyke.

BARTLET
Yes. Reverend?

VAN DYKE
May I ask you a question, sir?

BARTLET
Of course.

VAN DYKE
If our children can buy pornography on any street corner for five dollars,
isn't that too high a price to pay for free speech?

BARTLET
No.

VAN DYKE
Really?

BARTLET
On the other hand, I do think that five dollars is too high a price to pay for
pornography.

C.J.
Why don't we all sit down?

BARTLET
No. Let's not, C.J. These people won't be staying that long. May I have some coffee,
Mr. Lewis? Al, how many times have I asked you to denounce the practices of a fringe
group that calls itself The Lambs of God?

CALDWELL
Sir, it's not up to me to . . . 

BARTLET
Crap. It is up to you, Al. You, know, my wife, Abbey, she never wants me to do
anything while I'm upset. [a staffer hands him coffee] Thank you, Mr. Lewis. 28
years ago, I come home from a very bad day at the State House. I tell Abbey I'm
going out for a drive. I get in the station wagon, and put it in reverse, and pull
out of the garage full speed. Except I forgot to open the garage door.

Abbey told me to not drive while I was upset and she was right. She was right
yesterday when she told me not to get on that damn bicycle while I was upset, but
I did it anyway, and I guess I was just about as angry as I've ever been in my life.
It seems my granddaughter, Annie, had given an interview in one of the teen magazines.
And somewhere between movie stars and make-up tips, she talked about her feelings on
a woman's right to choose. Now Annie, all of 12, has always been precocious, but she's
got a good head on her shoulders and I like it when she uses it, so I couldn't
understand it when her mother called me in tears yesterday. I said, "Elizabeth,
what's wrong?" She said, "It's Annie." Now I love my family and I've read my bible
from cover to cover so I want you to tell me, from what part of the Holy Scripture
do you suppose the Lambs of God drew their Divine inspiration when they sent my 12
year-old granddaughter a Raggedy Ann doll with a knife stuck through its throat?
[pause] You'll denounce these people, Al. You'll do it publicly. And untilyou do,
you can all get your fat asses out of my White House. 

C.J., show these people out.

[BIGUN 1,314]

12 hours ago, jakee said:

You just need to read the Ten Commandments and go "hey that's weird, this stuff ain't in the law".

The target of the pamphlet was a bill before the Virginia Assembly supported by Gov. Patrick Henry that would have laid a general tax to pay Christian teachers a modest salary. The bill would not have established any one denomination (all Christian churches were eligible for the funds), but it would have made Christianity the established religion of the state.

Madison considered the bill a “dangerous abuse of power”; he reasoned that if government could establish Christianity over other religions, then it would also have the power to elevate one Christian group over another. Madison believed that religion was a matter of individual conscience and that giving legislators control over religious belief would inevitably lead to violation of other basic rights: “It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties.” Madison succeeded in defeating the religious assessment bill and then spearheaded passage, in 1786, of Thomas Jefferson’s Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom.

[winsor 236]

16 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

While I do not always agree with them, this is why I donate to them every year:  ACLU to file lawsuit against Louisiana law requiring Ten Commandments in classrooms

ACLU to file lawsuit against Louisiana law requiring 10 Commandments in schools (thehill.com)

Jerry Baumchen

I say go ahead.  How many kids (or teachers) can read Hebrew anyway?

[Phil1111 1,149]

17 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

The fact that they did it shows how we've already lost.

Correct.

17 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Nah. It was somebody's attempt in an election cycle to say here's what I did for you. Now, see what the Government did - RE-ELECT ME SO I CAN FIGHT FOR YOU!!! Pathetic

and also correct. The political leadership on the right isn't leading the agenda its following what the base wants.

An aggregate wave of the "failure to respect christian values is responsible for everything wrong with America". Is the narrative that appeals.

Edited June 21, 2024 by Phil1111

[jakee 1,489]

4 hours ago, BIGUN said:

The target of the pamphlet was a bill before the Virginia Assembly supported by Gov. Patrick Henry that would have laid a general tax to pay Christian teachers a modest salary. The bill would not have established any one denomination (all Christian churches were eligible for the funds), but it would have made Christianity the established religion of the state.

Madison considered the bill a “dangerous abuse of power”; he reasoned that if government could establish Christianity over other religions, then it would also have the power to elevate one Christian group over another. Madison believed that religion was a matter of individual conscience and that giving legislators control over religious belief would inevitably lead to violation of other basic rights: “It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties.” Madison succeeded in defeating the religious assessment bill and then spearheaded passage, in 1786, of Thomas Jefferson’s Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom.

Nice, thank you.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

21 hours ago, BIGUN said:

That's gonna be an easy win, Jerry. There's always parochial school. 

You would think. But prayer in the middle of the Football field by a school employee has been ruled as private speech and as such protected. So with the current SCOTUS I can see a ruling where they give more weight to the private speech part...somehow.

[billvon 2,991]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

You would think. But prayer in the middle of the Football field by a school employee has been ruled as private speech and as such protected. So with the current SCOTUS I can see a ruling where they give more weight to the private speech part...somehow.

Exactly.

A schoolteacher/school district/state putting up images of the Ten Commandments is protected free speech, because everyone has a right to freedom of religion.  A schoolteacher/school district/state putting up the Nine Beliefs of Hinduism in a classroom is violating the same amendment by having a state sponsored display of a specific religion.

I mean, consider the bump stock ruling.  They'll find a way to twist the law to support it.

[billvon 2,991]

From Trump:

“I love the Ten Commandments in public schools, private schools, and many other places, for that matter. Read it — how can we, as a nation, go wrong??? This may be, in fact, the first major step in the revival of religion, which is desperately needed, in our country. Bring back TTC!!! Maga2024”

I have to wonder - which of the Ten Commandments has Trump NOT broken?  Maybe #6.  That's about it as far as I can tell.

[kallend 2,027]

55 minutes ago, billvon said:

From Trump:

“I love the Ten Commandments in public schools, private schools, and many other places, for that matter. Read it — how can we, as a nation, go wrong??? This may be, in fact, the first major step in the revival of religion, which is desperately needed, in our country. Bring back TTC!!! Maga2024”

I have to wonder - which of the Ten Commandments has Trump NOT broken?  Maybe #6.  That's about it as far as I can tell.

Nobody breaks 'em better.
Makes me feel sad for the rest.
Nobody breaks them half as good as him.
Donny, you're the best.

[tkhayes 348]

On 6/20/2024 at 2:25 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

While I do not always agree with them, this is why I donate to them every year:  ACLU to file lawsuit against Louisiana law requiring Ten Commandments in classrooms

ACLU to file lawsuit against Louisiana law requiring 10 Commandments in schools (thehill.com)

Jerry Baumchen

yet another government who spends taxpayer dollars on ideology and loses every time.

but they keep trying because even if ONE PERSON converts to christianity in the entire state, then the tens of millions of dollars spent will be worth it.

fuck those fucking assholes

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

2 hours ago, tkhayes said:

yet another government who spends taxpayer dollars on ideology and loses every time.

but they keep trying because even if ONE PERSON converts to christianity in the entire state, then the tens of millions of dollars spent will be worth it.

fuck those fucking assholes

Don't bet on it.

Given the current makeup of the SC, I can really see them finding some sort of loophole to allow this.

As noted above, they considered a teacher and coach, on the public payroll, holding a group prayer in the middle of the football field, while the majority of the crowd was present to be 'private speech'.

They seem utterly hell bent (pun intended) on destroying the separation of church and state.

[billvon 2,991]

On 6/20/2024 at 2:13 PM, ryoder said:

And the Louisiana politicians don't even see the irony, but Borowitz does:

Louisiana Orders Classrooms To Display All Ten Commandments That Trump Has Broken

If I were a student in one of those classrooms I'd be really tempted to post an alternate set some night:

I am the LORD thy God.  You shall worship no man over me.

You shall not make golden images of yourself for others to worship.

You shall not take the Lord's name in vain, even if you hate the "goddamn windmills."

Remember the Sabbath day.

Honor your father and mother, even if your father has Alzheimer's and you think he's a "fucking idiot."

Thou shalt not kill.

Thou shalt not commit adultery, even if she's a porn star and you pay her off so your wife doesn't find out.

Thou shalt not steal money from people who enroll in your "university."

Thou shalt not bear false witness against the woman you raped.

Thou shalt not covet Anthony Fauci's popularity, even if he's more popular than you are.

[johnhking1 96]

George Carlin 3 commandments.